1965 track tods and anti roll bar bushes

[malcolm]

Does anyone know where to buy the early (pre 1969?) track rods with the angled fork at the end. I have only been able to find later ones with the straight fork but these foul the eyes on steering rack. Otherwise is the ball joint available by it self - could press it in to an old arm.

Also pre-September 1965 cars had a funny anti-roll bar fitting under the car. The outer fitting looks similar to pre-1969 cars. I need both, but could probably botch up the fittings under the car with parts from another car.

 

[angel]

Malcolm I will check around here as I remember I had seen the outer anti-roll bar bushes somewhere. (They look like 2 bushes at 90 degrees to each other). I am pretty sure I had found the track rods, can you send a photo to be sure how they are? Also thread and taper diameter on the ball joint.

 

[malcolm]

I've been meaning to take photos but my organisational skills aren't up to much. Here are some bad photos:



Above is the steering arm I want. The arm itself runs in a different axis from the rack, and the ends of the arm are angled to compensate. Possibly pre-1971. The later ones have ends parallel to the arm, but these foul the steering rack and strain the bush on the early cars. (Those are fitted to my car at the moment - photo is another car)



Above the end of the anti-roll bar. I think it is the same as other cars with similar looking bits. Up to 1971 maybe? The side in the photo is OK, but the other side is not so good.



Above - the anti roll bar attachment to the chassis. This is pre-summer 1965. After that they bolted to the side of the chassis in normal fashion. Early ones ought to be easy to make if they aren't available.

Any help in sourcing parts would be much appreciated. Otherwise I can do my own thing, but that's never as nice.

 

[angel]

Malcolm, can you separate a track rod ball-joint and measure the thread diameter and the taper maximum diameter? There were 2 different dimensions there if I remember correctly.
The angle you describe is when you look the track rod from the side of the car, am I correct? Like the track rod has been twisted?

All of these changes are associated with the castor angle modification in 1969.

 

[malcolm]

I'm disappearing off for a couple of weeks tomorrow but will check when I return. The car has the later track rod fitted at the moment (not pictured), but that's no guarantee that one actually has the right taper. Will fiddle a bit.

The angle is where the U shaped part bolts to the steering rack. The ones in the photo are angled like /_/ but the later ones (wrong) that have been fitted to my '65 car are straight |_|.

 

[angel]

OK as soon as you have the taper and thread dimensions I will ask.
If you suspect that the taper is wrong, measure the female taper at the stub axle carrier.

 

[malcolm]

I've managed to buy one track rod arm - I still need the Right side. It's the pre-68 type with the 11.5mm taper (not the earlier 10.5mm taper). I might fit a second hand one.

Also believe it or not I'm struggling to find an upper suspension balljoint! Again the 11.5mm taper and before 1968. The suspension arm has a smaller hole in the top than the later GTL. But everyone seems to be out of stock! Again I can fit the old one with a new boot and wait for stock.

It looks like I can use the anti-roll bar mountings from a spares car.

These early cars are a pain for spares!

 

[pepper]

Yes but they are so worth it!

I have a 1953 Morris Oxford MO, you should see the spares availability for that! Hence getting a later 4 as a run around car made a lot of sense to me.

 

[malcolm]

I went out and rebuilt the suspension this afternoon with parts from spares cars. I'll not be doing many miles in the old girl, so they should last well enough.

Should hopefully be able to pick up parts from eBay, and I'll ask around at the R4 run to see where other people buy their parts.

 

[John-Peter]

Early track rod arm

Dear Malcolm,

Could it be that I have the parts you're looking for?

I'm desesperately trying to exchange a right hand side arm for a left hand side one, so I would have a complete set :wink:

Let me know ...

John-Peter

 

[malcolm]

Those look like the correct ones. I managed to source a LH one from Quintin Hazel. I will find out if they are still available. I will need one for the right side as I have used one from another car which will need to be replaced in the next couple of years.

 

[Steve Hennessey]

Malcolm, these arms are still listed by QH but there appears to be two types dependant on the chassis number. If you or anybody else is interested I can look up the part numbers.

 

[malcolm]

Mine uses the later part numbers. I think the difference was the change from 10mm to 12mm taper on the ball joint which happened quite early on ('63 maybe). I'll ask the motor factors to give QH a call next time I'm in (or is there another way to check availability? They seem to be listed but not necessarily available).

 

[Steve Hennessey]

I have no way of checking availability - it appears to be best to go through a helpful motor factor. QH do have a website with online catalogues. The tool I use is QPID live and it's very handy. Download vis the QH website and you will also need Adobe Air.

 

[John-Peter]

Track rods

Dear Malcolm,

After removal of the dust caps (for re-greasing before storage), it appears my track rods have the 10.5mm taper

Also, the arm is completely round, yours seems to have a partially square section on one end.

As described in the 3rd edition of the spare parts catalog (attached).

Later R4's (1968-69?) and R6's uses M12x100 thread steering rack ends (instead of our M11x100 ones), the "bracket" on the rod is larger.
I don't know if the use of this later model on a 64-68 car is an issue.

So they're at least 3 different models of track rods

Good luck with the QH parts!

Best ragards,

John-Peter

 

[malcolm]

There are 3 types that I am aware of. Here are approximate dates:
1961 - 1963 (approx): For 7 degree camber suspension with 10mm tapers
1964 (approx) to 1968 (approx): For 7 degree camber suspension with 12mm tapers
Both of these types are for cars with sprung steering racks)
1969 (approx) to 1978 (approx): For 13 degree camber suspension with 12mm tapers.

The main difference between the last two is the angle of the end where it attaches to the steering rack. There is quite a high angle on on the earlier track rod ends, and much less on the later ones. Cheap reproductions can have no angle at all. My '65 car was fitted with later (cheap) ones when I bought it and there was metal to metal contact between the steering arm and the track rod end because the angle was wrong.

So we are both looking now! I will let you know what I find.

 

[John-Peter]

Track rods - correction

Dear Malcolm,

I'm confused ops:, in my last message, please read "ball joint cone diameter is 10.5mm" and not "taper diameter".

As illustrated hereunder.

I didn't realised so poor aftermarket spare parts, as found on your car, were available for 4L's. Or could it be it's coming from another vehicle?

A specialized French supplier is selling rods as you wish, but there's no mention of make or quality

Keep on trying to get the QH ones ...

Best regards,

John-Peter

 

[Pieter]

anti roll bar bushes

I also had trouble with finding the old style antiroll bar bushes, and also I found my car (late 1967 English spec, 4 speed gearbox, but still 7 degree castor angle and old front suspension) had a very spindly antiroll bar, so going around corners/fast roundabouts was a bit scary. I found a GTL bar and its bushes will fit - straight swap- if you cut around 4 or 5 mm off each end so it doesn't foul the suspension.

Also I put a rear bar from a GTL on the back end. This required drilling mounting holes and buying the bar and brackets from Renault. I then made a set of captive nut plates to slide down inside the rear suspension arms. Cars earlier than about '66 (approx) have a narrower rear track, so you'd have to make a similar bar but a few inches shorter.

Apart from the castoring action at high speed not being as good, this brings the early car suspension up to being very similar to later cars.