5 Speed Gearbox onto Gordini engine in R4

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Hi good afternoon, ---- I would like some clarification if possible please on the task of fitting the 5 speed box onto the Gordini engine for installation to an R4. ----- I have read a couple of times the detailed explanation in the restoration section on this subject, but I can not decide if my end conclusion is correct.
A) Paragraph one appears to say the task is to use the 5 speed box in place of the 4 speed.
B) Paragraph two then sounds like the 4 speed is to be used by adding some parts from the 5 speed.
C) Paragraph three now goes back to using the 5 speed,swapping the bell housing and clutch shaft from the R4 gaining approx. 10 mm along with the R4 gearbox top cover, enabling the dash mounted gear lever to be retained.
Reading on, I take it to understand the end result is that the engine and box are some 20 mm or so longer than standard R4, the front member then needed amending but also the bell housing needed modifying for the belt to fit properly and the bonnet had to be adjusted to fit the increased front member.

I can not decide from reading this technical piece, if you still need to use the R4 housing and shaft, or if it would not have been simpler to use the original 5 speed box housing and shaft, avoid altering for the belt and adapting the front member and bonnet to accommodate this extra 10 mm
I am not a purist for the R4 final look so I have no worries on adapting the body work for a further 10 mm ----- Can anyone advise if I am missing the point here, if so I would be very great full to be guided in the correct direction.
Steve

 

[malcolm]

This page? http://www.renault4.co.uk/gordini-gearbox.htm

You could use the R5 bellhousing. Just more mods to the bonnet and front crossmember to accommodate the extra 10mm. You need to use the R4 gearbox cover if you want the dash mounted gearchange. That is adapted by using parts from the R5 box.

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

This page? http://www.renault4.co.uk/gordini-gearbox.htm

Hi Malcolm ----- Thank you so much for the clarification, I find your restoration section so helpful and its full of great pictures. I have used it extensively so far for the work I have done and its all worked out just fine ---- The gearbox restoration/refurbishment is a bit beyond my skill level so I am sending that to my local transmission guy and so wanted to be sure of my explanation to him. I do want to use the dash gear change, I think its an integral part of the cars charm so I will supply him the R4 box as well for the parts. I will also give him the link to this site which I am sure will be useful and once again thanks for your quick response, it keeps me on track.
Steve

 

[mr-reno-139]

You can leave original cross member in place and fabricate brackets to support gearbox one each side with rubber mounts
This has been done by cristoph on this forum as I mentioned seeing it on a Dutch 4 website I can tell you no more of exactly how he did it but I supplied the ha1 box and the cars is on the road working

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Hi and good morning---- Thanks for this additional information, obviously it would be great not to have to make too many chassis or body mods so I will look more closely into this suggestion. May I ask if Cristoph is a contributor to this forum and how to reach his.
Steve

 

[mr-reno-139]

i do have a phone number for him as obviously he has been in contact with me but i think you should try sending him a private message first i will be speaking to him very shortly about some parts he is going to collect from me next week will try and ask him to post on your thread
i am sure he would prefer i didn't post his contact details on here without being asked first

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

I fully understand, so will wait for him to make contact me if he wishes ---- Thank you
Steve

 

[montenegro]

dont forget to change the 1st motion shaft or you wont mate the box to the engine !!!

 

[mr-reno-139]

As I just got notification and always use to bolt straight on without changing any thing why does first motion shaft need changing ?

Stephen spoken to christoph waiting for him to email pics so I can upload
also hoping to see how he did it as am going to use ha1 box in my rodeo without cutting crossmember

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Good morning --- Christoph has emailed me and sent a brief description. He has said he will issue some photos to help explain further. Obviously it appears there is some difference of opinion on if the 1st motion shaft needs to be swapped. I will be interested to see what the correct answer is before I can proceed. I really appreciate all the help you are providing, and hope your gearbox transplant goes smoothly.
Steve

 

[montenegro]

as I have fitted a couple of ha1 boxes I can assure you that if you do not change the 1st motion shaft the box will NOT fit. the shafts are different in the length of the splined section and if using the R5 shaft you will have a gap of around 3cm. its easy to change the shaft and only requires the removal of a circlip and pushing out a pin, can be done by removing 1 drive shaft bearing retainer. pm me if you need more info.

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

OK Thanks, I will speak to the transmission people who are checking out the box, If all is ok to proceed I am sure they will swap it over for me ( I have used them a few times before on my American cars.)
cheers
Steve

 

[mr-reno-139]

ah but i used to fit the gearbox with the r5 ha1 bellhousing complete that's why you said change shaft i knew about the length difference obviously

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Morning again guys ----- I thought I was clear but I am now not so sure. You seem to suggest that Montenegro is only swapping the motion gear because he is using the bell housing from another gearbox. If you intend fitting a 5 speed box is it not the case that you fit it with its own bell housing and 1 st motion shaft complete. Why would someone swap the bell housing from the 4 speed ---- is there a fitting problem to the Gordini engine ?? ------ Can you not just fit the 5 speed box in its complete form to the engine, swap the top plate and relevant parts to change the gear lever to top mount to suit a dashboard exit gear lever and deal with the slight increase in length by adapting either the chassis as in Malcolm's method or using adapter fittings as in Christoph's method.
Steve