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950cc Valve clearances

G

Giles

Enthusiast
Messages
40
Location
Sussex
Hi... new to the forum and to R4. Just got my first after wanting one since crossing the Atlas mountains off road in one i hired in Morocco in about '92.

I've just got a 1992 TL, which has the 950cc engine. There's a 'ticking' noise from the top of then engine, which i suspect is exhaust valve clearance. Before i take the cover off in this crappy weather, what should the clearances be?

Thanks
 
Hello Giles, I know the feeling, haven't seen blue sky for a week!
The exhaust valve clearance is 0.20mm and the inlet valves are 0,15mm. All done on a cold engine.
 
Thanks mojobaby! Looks like they set a standard and stuck to it!

I'm up the road in southern Charente. I spent a lot of time in L et G as a kid, roughly where are you?

I'm having real problems finding out anything about this engine... about the only tech stuff seems to be on this site

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17158349/renault-4-mentnance-guide#scribd

but even here it appears that they have misprinted the cc as 852 (it groups all the engine sizes apart from two together, and then groups 1108 and 852...)

My body and engine plates look like they should, but the engine plate has weird numbers on it that don't seem to conform to the workshop guide on scribd. Thinking of downloading it anyway.
 
Hi Giles, I'm very close to Villeneuve sur Lot,

I use my Heynes manual a lot, but I get an incredible amount of help from this website.

I recently downloaded the PR1104 file which was made available by Tomcat, one of the members here. I'm sure he wouldn't mind forwarding it to you if you ask him. It doesn't have any specs, but it has very detailed pictures showing every nut and bolt and washer and also lists the Renault part numbers. I think your engine is on there as well.

As far as engine codes is concerned, Jjad seems to be the expert. Type in "engine codes " in the search box at the top of the page and look for any post by Jjad. If you can't get the info you need, just ask and someone here will undoubtedly help you. You can also take photos of the plates and post them here.
 
Thanks, but I'm not an expert! :-) I just contributed to that wikia page that harbourseal linked to.
 
Giles said:
Thanks mojobaby! Looks like they set a standard and stuck to it!

I'm up the road in southern Charente. I spent a lot of time in L et G as a kid, roughly where are you?

I'm having real problems finding out anything about this engine... about the only tech stuff seems to be on this site

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17158349/renault-4-mentnance-guide#scribd

but even here it appears that they have misprinted the cc as 852 (it groups all the engine sizes apart from two together, and then groups 1108 and 852...)

My body and engine plates look like they should, but the engine plate has weird numbers on it that don't seem to conform to the workshop guide on scribd. Thinking of downloading it anyway.
Click to expand...

The 852 cc engine is a small variant of the cleon engine, so has the same shape and working principles of the 1108; it was made for the Spanish market as far as I know...
 
Thanks all.

The engine is the 956cc 112C engine. As far as I can work out, it is identical to the 1108cc (GTL) engine but with narrower bores.

Adjusting the tappets hasn't cured the 'ticking', so I maybe I shall just have to call it 'knocking' and assume it is a [little end] bearing. I think the engine was run without oil at some stage and then the big ends/crankshaft bearings replaced.

Of course, i'm now looking for a manual! Off topic for this thread I know, but it looks like the Haynes that is still available does in fact also cover the 1108 engine, but mises out the 950cc?!
 
The 956cc engine was never distributed in the UK in a Renault 4 so Haynes doesn't cover it. Haynes do cover it in the Renault 5 manuals but it's not worth buying one as it is grouped in with the 1108cc and all the specs are the same (with the exception of narrower bores).

I wouldn't bother rebuilding the engine just because of a little ticking. It's not the exhaust manifold ticking is it?
 
I don't know whether it is the manifold... sounds like more of a 'tick' (like a ball bearing in an aerosol can) than a 'fft', but there was a small leak at the back of the manifold that i tightened up... maybe there's another one somewhere.

The noise is more pronounced with the engine under load... and if it is a little end, i don't want to end up with piston slap and messing up the bores.

Apart from that it gets up to 100kph no probs, the interior is mint and there's only 27000kms of one little old lady with a garage since new on the clock. She did a good job of putting a dent in e v e r y s i n g l e panel, though!
 
If it is more pronounced under load my money would be an exhaust leak - either the manifold or the joint to the downpipe. The design isn't that great and 2/3 of my immaculately maintained fleet have the problem (mostly in that join to the downpipe for me), but it is rarely possible to sort a manifold leak just by re-tightening the nuts.
 
malcolm said:
If it is more pronounced under load my money would be an exhaust leak - either the manifold or the joint to the downpipe. The design isn't that great and 2/3 of my immaculately maintained fleet have the problem (mostly in that join to the downpipe for me), but it is rarely possible to sort a manifold leak just by re-tightening the nuts.
Click to expand...

The leak I found was tiny... slowly blowing smokey bubbles in soapy water... and now its gone. Incidentally, the rocker cover was hung up on the pressure sensor boss and so the gasket wasn't sealing there and has gone brittle. Can I get those separately?

How do you diagnose your exhaust leaks? The water evaporates (boils off) pretty quickly. And i take it you don't bother repairing until replacing the gasket for some other reason?

Bloody annoying noise though. Although I can't really hear it on the over-run (maybe because everything else is rattling ;-) )
 
I normally diagnose exhaust leaks by listing for a ticking that gets worse under load. I have found there are two different types of clamp for the joint between manifold and downpipe, and that the wrong one doesn't work well. I don't recall which is right or wrong. Perhaps someone else will know.

Put your hand close to that joint and you might feel gas leakage at idle. It is a rubbish joint but pulling it apart and gumming up with exhaust paste seems to help for a while. It moves around under engine movement and exhaust movement. Again someone else might have found a solution. My R5 ticks like a mad broken thing under load.
 
Thanks malcolm... i'll have a look tomorrow. Great to learn some of the R4 foibles quickly, and extra good if it means I don't have to take it to pieces!
 
No leaks :-(

But a local suggested a quick way to check for little end play: take the sump off and poke the bottom of the piston with a stick!
 
Incidentally, the small end doesn't have a bearing, just a bushing. And taking the sump off with the engine in the car will be a nightmare.
Have you considered that it might be the timing chain or even something as simple as a worn or damaged fan belt? Or even a loud spark at the distributor?
 
mojobaby said:
Incidentally, the small end doesn't have a bearing, just a bushing. And taking the sump off with the engine in the car will be a nightmare.
Have you considered that it might be the timing chain or even something as simple as a worn or damaged fan belt? Or even a loud spark at the distributor?
Click to expand...

Well, i have. My knowledge of some of these things is limited: The Landrover 110 has a timing belt, and the MG has neither a belt nor a chain (what am I doing with 3 cars aged 23-40 years old??!!). But, the sound seems to come from the lump itself and not anywhere around it, and you can't really hear it until the engine is under load (either by pumping the accelerator or pulling away/cruising at speed... although it is NOT pinking, i can get that too if i really try), and it is definitely louder than a stray spark... more like hitting two decent sized bits of flint together (or two bits of metal ;) ).

I've just found some barn space for it (it is peeing down here) and done a quick bit of vid which hopefully will have recorded the sound. I shall put the vid up the web somewhere and start a new thread called "950cc engine knocking" with a link to the vid... but not until later.

I had a quick look at your orange find, by the way. Looks like a lot of fun/work.
 
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