Clementine's Garage
Clementine the Cat
 
Image of flower
Yellow R4
 
Réparateur d'automobiles

Brake upgrade

Tomcat

Enthusiast
Messages
968
Location
Milton Keynes
My F4 van has drum brakes at front with handbrake at front too.

If I wanted to convert to discs at front and drums at back what would I need to do please.
Is it straight swop with say system from a GTL or van.

Has anyone undertaken this conversion ever?
Any information appreciated.

Thanks Tom
 
Think you need lot of pieces but not so difficult... better to find complete donor than looking around for single pieces!
 
Think you need lot of pieces but not so difficult... better to find complete donor than looking around for single pieces!
Hi, Yes assumed that would be best way to go. Maybe cheaper and easier, to get an F4 or F6 with 1108 and then upgrade disc / drum system already fitted?
 
That is exactly what I am up to on my rodeo as it was based on 1981 gtl with drum fronts and back
All gtl with later dash had discs and don't think I've seen an f6 van with front drums but icould be wrong as not all markets built to same spec
Luckily I've been hoarding bits for a long time but even so I am short of the handbrake arms inside drums for 180mm bendix rear setup
Hoping to take some off a mk1 5 auto on friday
 
Is there any way of improving the drum braking system at all?
 
Think the vans had the biggest drums available 228mm front maybe 10 or 180 rear again not sure as we never got later model F4 vans here
Maybe check for semi seized cylinder
Or maybe adjustment you could always a sk friendly mot tester to check readings for you as they can calculate efficiency
Maybe dual circuit master cylinder not at its best if you press really slowly does pedal creep down
Load sensing valve seized or adjusted incorrectly
Brake shoes fitted wrong way round leading and trailing shoes remember
Adjustment on brake pedal pushrod free play excessive
Press harder lol maybe your fancy seats have altered leg angle ☺
Come down and visit me for a second opinion is always an option available to anyone on the forum
 
You can change to a dual circuit master cylinder and add a remote booster in the front circuit. It makes a big difference with drums. When brake pad and lining material went to the non-asbestos replacement material a few years ago it had a huge effect on pedal pressure required for the same stopping performance.

I've done it on my '68 saloon because I couldn't face all the kerfuffle with changing to disks (in particular moving handrake to the rear wheels). I am thinking about adding another remote booster to the rear circuit but to be honest the effect would be limited because of the early pressure limiting valve setup.

Once you can stop with reasonable pedal pressure I think the only advantage with disks is better fade performance if you are doing lots of rally driving around town, especially since good cheap aftermarket drums are available if your drums are worn out or ovalled....

If you are interested I can put up some photos of the installation.
 
Hi Piet,

I'd be interested in some pictures and your set-up for my Sinpar project.

Regards,
Robert
 
You can change to a dual circuit master cylinder and add a remote booster in the front circuit. It makes a big difference with drums. When brake pad and lining material went to the non-asbestos replacement material a few years ago it had a huge effect on pedal pressure required for the same stopping performance.

I've done it on my '68 saloon because I couldn't face all the kerfuffle with changing to disks (in particular moving handrake to the rear wheels). I am thinking about adding another remote booster to the rear circuit but to be honest the effect would be limited because of the early pressure limiting valve setup.

Once you can stop with reasonable pedal pressure I think the only advantage with disks is better fade performance if you are doing lots of rally driving around town, especially since good cheap aftermarket drums are available if your drums are worn out or ovalled....

If you are interested I can put up some photos of the installation.
Hi Piet
Some pictures would be most appreciated when convenient.
Thank you
Regards
Tom
 
P1060622.JPG P1060623.JPG P1060625.JPG

OK, here are some pics of the installation: No 1 shows the remote booster mounted to the RH inner wing just below the jack and fwd of the radiator. This is the smaller of the two sizes commonly used, typically used one for each of the twin circuits on cars like RHD 105 series alfas with the master cylinder under the floor and organ style pedals. You can get a larger size which is used for cars with a single circuit like earlier alfa gulias etc but the physical size makes it hard to fit under the bonnet. There was a bit of thought involved in finding a spot that wasn't going to get too hot, block airflow into the radiator, or foul the bonnet stays when the bonnet is closed. An alternative position is inside the RH wheel arch but we discounted that because it would get too filthy and these things should be kept clean.

No 2 shows the new twin circuit master cylinder (std for later R4s, fitted specially by me on Betty Bleu 'cos I didn't like the idea of suddenly losing all my brakes) with the front wheel pair line going forward to the remote booster. Just to the right of the expansion bottle and master cylinder is the mount for a little drag brace which helps hold the booster to the inner wing. The drag brace came out of the junk pile, not a Renault 4 part.

No 3 shows the booster and the stud on it which attaches to the drag brace, just below the union in the brake pipe. The heavy hose is a vacuum hose from the inlet manifold. The brake pipe to the left is the input from the master cylinder. On the end at the RHS of the photo (towards centre of car) are the two output brake pipes to the two front wheel cylinders.


P1060628.JPG P1060629.JPG P1060626.JPG

No 4 shows inside the RH front wheel arch, forward is to the right of the photo. The two nuts with bolts poking through the inner wing are upper, existing mount for handbrake return spring and lower is another mounting stud on the booster cylinder.

No 5 shows the drag brace and the pipe run.

No 6 shows the vacuum tapping in the inlet manifold.

The installation was put in by my local brake place. Given there is the early type of pressure limiting valve on the rear circuit, which is not triggered by rear ride height/load, we felt having power assist to the rear circuit was of limited use and would only put it in if the braking felt really strange. It feels OK though. But I imagine the additional booster would help up to a point and I occasionally toy with the idea of throwing in another booster for the rear, perhaps somewhere low down on the LHS of the engine bay fwd of the muffler.

The biggest issue doing this aprt from finding somewhere it would fit was that with dual circuit and worn brake drums it was hard to get enough adjustment or you could bottom the pedal under heavy braking and have to pump them. This was fixed partially, or at least improved, by fitting bushes on the brake adjusters inside the drums, and building up the strut that goes between the bottom of the brake shoes to space it out further, but it was pretty horrible and ultimately just a bodge until we could fix it properly. We fixed it definitvely by putting on brand new drums. Like many small car drum set-ups Renault brakes work pretty well when all the bits are brand new and up to spec and lousy if not.

Hopefully this answers all your questions, if not let me know.
Cheers,
Piet
 
Piet
Thank you for all the information.
I will study it carefully.
I do have the later style twin master cylinder on mine as standard.
I fully understand your statement "Like many small car drum set-ups Renault brakes work pretty well when all the bits are brand new and up to spec and lousy if not."
Best regards
Tom
 
Back
Top