Clutch Judder

[sshermand]

Season greetings to all
A quickie- my clutch, which was changed only a 1000 miles ago, has just developed a judder.Not too bad at the moment ,but it is a little annoying .
Any ideas what has caused that ? And can I fix it myself ?

 

[malcolm]

Last time I had clutch judder it was due to the clutch back plate which had become a little bent somehow. Did you fit a 3 piece clutch kit or just the clutch plate itself?

Is the clutch a little heavy? If so you might prolong the life of the back plate by spraying WD40 on the shaft where the clutch lever attaches to the gearbox. http://www.renault4.co.uk/tech-clutch-seize.htm

 

[sshermand]

A new three piece clutch kit was fitted ,but do you think the judder could be from the clutch cable ?, as that wasn't replaced
In the meantime I will try the WD40. Thanks.

 

[malcolm]

I guess there are a few things that may be causing the judder. I've never had a problem with the clutch cable itself apart from when they fray and snap - it's normally that shaft that needs to be sprayed with WD40 that is responsible for any stiffness. Although either could potentially result in a bit of judder.

Other possibilities are flywheel warping and cracking, oil contamination of the clutch (unlikely on the R4 especially if the clutch is new) water contamination (does it judder less when it's warmed up?). Or even a poor quality clutch or backplate.

I once had a really nasty judder on my F6 van. I suspect the clutch backplate was causing the problem, but it was reduced by setting up the points and timing perfectly.

Another thing to check might be engine mountings - they can break and cause the engine to bounce around which can feel a lot like clutch judder.

 

[sshermand]

Problem cured -
The WD40 has seemed to have loosen it up- very light now .Hmmm.. your mention of water contamination might have contributed to it as well; because I did flush out the water system prior to the start of the judder- perhaps some water snaked its way into the clutch (possible?)
Anyway, another problem solved courtesy of this great R4 forum !

 

[malcolm]

Could well have been water - there's a big hole in the gearbox bellhousing casing right above the clutch that's used for seeing where the timing marks are on the flywheel. Maybe a bit of water made it in there.

Glad it's sorted though, and doesn't the WD40 make the clutch operation lovely. The effect is nearly as good as wiping a bit of petrolium jelly on the gear stick shaft where it passes through that bush just forward of the engine.

 

[superama]

If you've fitted a so-called reclaimed clutch assembly as sold by some motor factors they often give trouble. Replace with a recognised make. Also would not suggest spraying gearbox input shaft with WD-40. If this gets onto the clutch thrust bearing it will seize. I know,it happened to me. A light oil is recommended

 

[jjad]

Our GTL is experiencing what I think is a clutch problem. The problem used to just occur after engaging reverse gear; the violent judder occurs when pulling away (at the biting point) and requires careful control of the accelerator and clutch pedals to avoid kangarooing! It now also happens when pulling away in first gear. The gearbox mount looks OK, as do the engine mounts and there doesn't seem to be much movement of the engine.

Would overfilling with engine or gearbox oil cause this (I would think it would cause slipping, not judder)? The gearbox does look very oily.

Malcolm, the judder on your F6: was this similar to what I'm describing, or did it happen all the time or for all gear changes?

Many thanks, Jonathan

 

[Steve Hennessey]

If the mountings are all ok then it's possible that some gearbox oil has got onto the clutch plate. This can be caused by overfilling the gearbox coupled with a worn spigot shaft seal. The oil will travel down the splines and some of it gets thrown onto the friction plate by centrifrugal force. The clutch will have some oily areas and dry areas therefore causing the judder. When it gets fully soaked then it will slip completely!! Anybody who worked on old Minis will know what I'm talking about.

So, if the mountings are ok then it's a new clutch and investigation is needed into where the oil is coming from.

 

[malcolm]

My clutch was similar to yours - it will only happen while pulling away.

Just a thought based on previous comments in this thread - is your waterpump leaking by any chance? Water comes out of a little hole at the bottom if the seals fail. Only mention the possibility as it would be an easier fix.

 

[pepper]

BB had a dreadful clutch judder on the original engine and gearbox, so when one of the liners started leaking I just swapped the whole engine and gearbox over from the crash damaged car.

Solved two problems in one go, I know, I know it doesn't help what so ever.

 

[jjad]

Backplate or timing?

Malcolm,

My clutch was similar to yours - it will only happen while pulling away.

do you mean similar to your clutch with the bent back plate, or the F6 with the bad timing?

Did you replace the clutch in the end? Did you take out the gearbox, or the engine?

I'll have a look at the water pump, though I don't think he is using up water.

Thanks for your suggestions

Jonathan

 

[malcolm]

I sold the F6 without sorting the clutch. It needed other work and I was busily moving house at the time.

So I've never actually fixed a juddering clutch.

 

[Steve Hennessey]

Jonathan, I have fixed loads of juddering clutches in my time and all involved removal of the gearbox, replacement of the first motion shaft oil seal if it was contaminated by oil, a complete replacement clutch (all three pieces), a check/replacement/lube of the operating system (cable or hydraulics), and in rare cases having the flywheel skimmed. There's no easy fix I'm afraid!!

 

[jjad]

Well, the good news is, it wasn't the clutch after all!

We took the car down to Renospeed in London thinking that an entire new clutch would be needed.

Derek found that a bracket fixing the engine (and/or starter) had been removed, causing excess movement. He put in a new bracket and Richie drives beautifully now.

I can thoroughly recommend Renospeed

 

[pepper]

I'm surprised you were able to drive it all!! When that brackets missing the poor things are virtually undriveable.

 

[mr-reno-139]

hi JJad
was going to suggest the possibility of it being missing but hate having to type the same stuff over at the risk of boring everybody who has read the helpful similar threads link below
pretty sure every ?? possible r4 related problem has been covered by now on this forum

 

[jjad]

No worries Mr Reno!

I don't know how I managed to miss the other post, I normally do a search before posting!

Cheers, Jonathan