My little ‘Quatrelle’ (1984 TL) has just failed his Contrôle Technique (MOT) here in France because of the emissions. Various remedies have been suggested and prices quoted. What do you think would be a reasonable cost for changing the plugs, points, condenser and air filter?
- Thread starter Shorty
- Start date
First step if your car fails emissions : change the oil and filter, run the car for about 50 kilometres to get the oil thoroughly warmed up and circulated, change oil again. This flushes a lot of crud out of the system. Last time I did that (with a diesel car) the emissions came in at one-tenth of the "fail" level.
Of the other items you list, air filter is the most important. This and changing the plugs you should be able to do yourself — all the equipment you will need will be plug spanner, sump drain spanner and oil filter wrench (screw band type is best). Try those (no labour costs) before going for the points & condenser, for which you will need specialist timing equipment (or an expert). If the car is not misfiring the points/condenser are unlikely to be the main culprit anyway.
Of the other items you list, air filter is the most important. This and changing the plugs you should be able to do yourself — all the equipment you will need will be plug spanner, sump drain spanner and oil filter wrench (screw band type is best). Try those (no labour costs) before going for the points & condenser, for which you will need specialist timing equipment (or an expert). If the car is not misfiring the points/condenser are unlikely to be the main culprit anyway.
André4Renaults
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When you said "it failed because of emissions" what precisely were the numbers? Was it excessive CO, excessive NO or Excessive CO2? It might help knowing this to suggest what to do next. The next stage would be to investigate the emissions. A half-way decent garage would help you with this, and it's only a case (normally) of adjusting the mixture screw. Air filter changing, plug gap checking, points examinations etc. are all for later, if the first ideas don't yield results!
where in France are you?. I have a very capable garagiste near Souillac just south of Brive that i would recommend. I have used him several times and it always costs less than expected. Helps that he has an R4 himself and is a huge fan of the car.
mr-reno-139
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this could POSSIBLY be cured at no expense at all
undo nut on top of air filter remove filter refit lid
start engine wind mixture screw in until it starts running worse take it back 1/4 out
it may then pass
If so buying a new one of the 4 varying filters that listed can be purchased
BUT
without more info on the exact failure
AND
knowing the integrity of those repairing it is impossible to say if you might get told anything from a new carburettor
full service
engine rebuild
honest people like me despair at what rip off or even just incompetent garages get away with
please try hard to find honest person as mistakes cost money
undo nut on top of air filter remove filter refit lid
start engine wind mixture screw in until it starts running worse take it back 1/4 out
it may then pass
If so buying a new one of the 4 varying filters that listed can be purchased
BUT
without more info on the exact failure
AND
knowing the integrity of those repairing it is impossible to say if you might get told anything from a new carburettor
full service
engine rebuild
honest people like me despair at what rip off or even just incompetent garages get away with
please try hard to find honest person as mistakes cost money
You’re actually only a couple of hours away - not far by French distances!
Well , its called Garage Rougie, and he has a site in St Sozy/ Meyronne, just to the east of Souillac, close to the River, and a second site at Martel which is about 12 k east of Souillac. He collects cars and has a good and interesting collection, including a very nice R4.
The chap to speak to is Alexander Rougie, and my name is Edwin Onions, so please mention me, the brit with the Quatrelle, to show I recommend him. Martel local no is 0565 32 20 23 and St Sozy is 0565 32 20 08. The lady at St Sozy speaks a little Brit. Alexandre does not, but he is a nice chap and will try. He looks after a number of classic cars for people in the area.
The chap to speak to is Alexander Rougie, and my name is Edwin Onions, so please mention me, the brit with the Quatrelle, to show I recommend him. Martel local no is 0565 32 20 23 and St Sozy is 0565 32 20 08. The lady at St Sozy speaks a little Brit. Alexandre does not, but he is a nice chap and will try. He looks after a number of classic cars for people in the area.
Stuart Delahoy
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My best guess for a basic service at a local garage would be between 100 and 150 Euro....
mr-reno-139
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Who after collecting your €150 may then tell you you that you need any of the items I mentioned in my previous post to actually get the emissions down
I have become very cynical in my old age for which I do apologise
#Shorty : I hope you don’t feel that I’m speaking de haut en bas here. But I sense that you cannot do basic repairs yourself, but rely on garagistes. That, as #mr-reno-139 says, can be expensive and unsatisfactory. If I am wrong in this assessment I apologise.
But if I am right : you need to know that R4s are primitive beasts which were originally designed to be user-serviceable. They are thus much easier to own if you understand, and can do yourself, a few basic maintenance procedures. If you feel you are lacking that knowledge, get a Haynes Manual Renault 4 1961-1986 off the Internet (there are several currently on eBay at about GBP £20) plus a book on basic car mechanics to explain the concepts. Then get a few basic tools (see my previous post) and get going. Changing the oil and filter is a typical "beginner" task and there is satisfaction when it is done. Incidentally the oil is bog-standard 20/50 (no need for semi-synthetic if you change it regularly) and the filter is GFE 210 (or equivalent) for 845cc engines (may be different if you are 956cc or 1108cc).
The problem with R4s, which is certainly the case in the UK and will become more prevalent in France over time, is that few garagistes today have ever seen them and so themselves do not know how to approach what may be a fairly basic problem, solvable with a bit of hands-on past experience.
We are here to help/hold hands if needed. That is the whole raison-d’être of this Forum.
#mr-reno-139 may feel he is being cynical, but unfortunately he is also absolutely correct. And he doesn’t mention one other factor, which is that one does not wish to become known locally as a stupid Brit with more money than sense. My father had a house in France and was just such a fool himself and it has taken me 20 years to expunge that particular local stigma.
NOTE!! When I say “filter” in my two posts on this Thread I am referring to the OIL filter. The air filter will need changing as well but that is a separate exercise (even easier).
But if I am right : you need to know that R4s are primitive beasts which were originally designed to be user-serviceable. They are thus much easier to own if you understand, and can do yourself, a few basic maintenance procedures. If you feel you are lacking that knowledge, get a Haynes Manual Renault 4 1961-1986 off the Internet (there are several currently on eBay at about GBP £20) plus a book on basic car mechanics to explain the concepts. Then get a few basic tools (see my previous post) and get going. Changing the oil and filter is a typical "beginner" task and there is satisfaction when it is done. Incidentally the oil is bog-standard 20/50 (no need for semi-synthetic if you change it regularly) and the filter is GFE 210 (or equivalent) for 845cc engines (may be different if you are 956cc or 1108cc).
The problem with R4s, which is certainly the case in the UK and will become more prevalent in France over time, is that few garagistes today have ever seen them and so themselves do not know how to approach what may be a fairly basic problem, solvable with a bit of hands-on past experience.
We are here to help/hold hands if needed. That is the whole raison-d’être of this Forum.
#mr-reno-139 may feel he is being cynical, but unfortunately he is also absolutely correct. And he doesn’t mention one other factor, which is that one does not wish to become known locally as a stupid Brit with more money than sense. My father had a house in France and was just such a fool himself and it has taken me 20 years to expunge that particular local stigma.
NOTE!! When I say “filter” in my two posts on this Thread I am referring to the OIL filter. The air filter will need changing as well but that is a separate exercise (even easier).
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petak
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Parts here where i am (Croatia) would not be more than 30-40€. (plugs, points, cond and filterl
Good mechanic would need an hour to do the change of this parts and that would cost you 20-25€.
But France is far away from Croatia so prices for the job are probably expencive.
Jet again, i do the job by my self so plenty money for the beer left.
Good mechanic would need an hour to do the change of this parts and that would cost you 20-25€.
But France is far away from Croatia so prices for the job are probably expencive.
Jet again, i do the job by my self so plenty money for the beer left.
André4Renaults
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I'm happy to explain timing in basic terms to you over the pages of the forum. It's not really the occult science it's made out to be, I promise!
Ok guys, I confess I have neither the time nor the inclination to learn to do the mechanics myself. I have ordered a Haynes manual and in the future, when he’s finished renovating our house, my husband (yeah, I’m not a bloke!) will maintain it. I have been quoted 180 euros plus parts to do what I outlined previously. I feel that is excessive.
Actually, that’s not quite true - I will, when I can be supervised, be learning to do more maintenance myself.
Excellent policy. Welcome on board. Don’t forget that the members of this Forum are always delighted to pile in with advice if you encounter difficulties.
Regarding your emissions problem : if your garage did not think of (or mention) dirty oil as a prime suspect, you have to question their expertise. Or (to get cynical like #mr-reno-139) honesty. Change all the things that are obviously not the problem and charge you a fat fee, problem still not solved, make pretence of thinking really hard, change oil and oil-filter for an even fatter fee, emissions OK. Then next year suggest that everything is changed again.
It would be interesting to find out what your garage would quote for an oil change. You can get ordinary 20/50 online here (in 20L cans : for a double change you will use about 8 litres) for about GBP £2.50 per litre, and an oil filter can be had on eBay for about GBP £7.
Plugs/points/condenser would only be implicated, IMHO, if the car was misfiring (which presumably it is not).
Regarding your emissions problem : if your garage did not think of (or mention) dirty oil as a prime suspect, you have to question their expertise. Or (to get cynical like #mr-reno-139) honesty. Change all the things that are obviously not the problem and charge you a fat fee, problem still not solved, make pretence of thinking really hard, change oil and oil-filter for an even fatter fee, emissions OK. Then next year suggest that everything is changed again.
It would be interesting to find out what your garage would quote for an oil change. You can get ordinary 20/50 online here (in 20L cans : for a double change you will use about 8 litres) for about GBP £2.50 per litre, and an oil filter can be had on eBay for about GBP £7.
Plugs/points/condenser would only be implicated, IMHO, if the car was misfiring (which presumably it is not).
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mr-reno-139
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Me being honest and trying to help people doesn't help big businesses at all
imagine if I am forced to close down as I can't comply with the latest government regulations then I have to go and get a job at a fast Fit Centre telling people they need new parts when they don't I would be sacked within a week
imagine if I am forced to close down as I can't comply with the latest government regulations then I have to go and get a job at a fast Fit Centre telling people they need new parts when they don't I would be sacked within a week
JdeW
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Before my R4 GTL full restoration I always serviced my R4 myself and it costs a few £ (or euro's).
Only for the Dutch MOT I visited our village local garagists, who are Renault car fans for many years (R4, R5, R8 Gordini, and only an Alpine 310 still in showroom). Never any problem with emission rates whatever, because those garagist knows what it is to drive oldtimers and they just turn a blind eye when it comes to a certain emission "inconvenience", and that's the real spirit for those few who still love to drive an oldtimer, and what's the difference when a certain emission rate differs by a tenth or onehundred?
Only for the Dutch MOT I visited our village local garagists, who are Renault car fans for many years (R4, R5, R8 Gordini, and only an Alpine 310 still in showroom). Never any problem with emission rates whatever, because those garagist knows what it is to drive oldtimers and they just turn a blind eye when it comes to a certain emission "inconvenience", and that's the real spirit for those few who still love to drive an oldtimer, and what's the difference when a certain emission rate differs by a tenth or onehundred?