Do I just need a tune-up?

[51steve]

Hello everyone,

We have one workhorse of a 4L that we purchased five years ago and we use every summer for three months, the rest of the year it sits indoors.

This summer the car was hard to start. I’ll give you my steps in starting the car

1. In the morning (engine cold) I would use my normal routine of one pump of the accelerator, full choke (pulled out form dashboard) and if I was lucky, it would start immediately like old times.
2. If it didn’t start immediately, it would be a bear to get going, I would wait say thirty seconds give a pump maybe two, full choke, and engage the starter 3-5 seconds.
3. If it didn’t start this time I would wait another 30 seconds and try to start it without choke, the car would usually fire up but then die, if I were to pull the choke out partially or fully to keep the engine running- it would die immediately.
4. I would push start the car, full choke, luckily we are near a hill, and it would always start.
After I got the car running, it would start up, no problem, the rest of the day, until the next morning when the engine would be 100% cold.

I assume the car is woefully in need of a tune-up. I will be going back to our property this weekend, and I wanted anybody’s opinion on what else might be wrong. I have a repair manual (at the property).

This is what I plan on for the tune-up
1. replace plugs, cap, rotor, wires
2. replace points (what is the gap?, my feeler gauges are in inches)
3. set the timing (I have a timing gun, is cylinder #1 the front most cylinder next to the transmission?) I read the article on this website about setting the timing- I will use that method.

Lastly, could someone please tell me a good place to get parts in France? I know of Norauto (general parts) and Melun autopassion, but I was wondering if people knew of other places

I haven’t contributed much to this forum, and I appreciate the help that others have provided! Rest assured I help those who are broken down on the road.

Steve

 

[mojobaby]

You're in the Dordogne, and there are 4 Auto Distribution outlets which should carry your spares, they're in Sarlat, Perigueux, Bergerac and Boulazac. also one in Villeneuve sur Lot in Dept 47.

Your point gap is 0,4mm or 0,016 inches. I presume that when you go to buy the spares you'll be in your 4L, if not, take the old points and condensor , and cap with you, so there's no confusion.

Set the timing after you put in the new points.
also have your battery checked, it sounds like it's not holding the full charge overnight.

in the meantime, I suppose you could also just take your plugs out and clean them and make sure your points surfaces aren't pitted.

Good luck

 

[51steve]

Thanks Mojobaby, That's exactly what I needed. I will be swinging by an Autodistribution when I arrive. Hopefully a tune up is all she needs!

 

[angel]

You can pump the throttle pedal all day on an R4, with absolutely no result. These cars do not, normally, have an acceleration pump in the carb! Even if you are in the desert, an R4 needs full choke to start from cold.

On top of the tune up (which is always good-and don't forget the condenser!), check the following.

What you describe is a classic problem of many R4s when sitting for some time. Fuel drains from the fuel pump back to the tank, so when you try to start it, it will need a good 30 seconds cranking to get some fuel in the carb. Even after this, the float level would have not been restored, and you find yourself in the situation you described in (3).

I haven't found a 100% successful solution on this. On instances, fitting a new fuel pump will cure it, but sometimes it will not! Maybe cleaning the pump's valves (if it's the type that can be dismantled) will help.
Some early fuel pumps had a very handy priming lever, but these are hard to find nowadays. An electric fuel pump would solve this for sure, I have not tried one on an R4 yet.

 

[51steve]

Thanks Angel,

Funny you mention the fuel draining back into the tank. Back when I was a kid, it seemed that every kid's dad would rev the engine a few times before cutting the engine, I was told later that the revving would "top off" the carb bowl, making it easier to start later on. I'll be tuning up the car and posting the results this week.

Steve

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

I can highly recommend fitting a transparent fuel filter above the rocker cover, so you can easily see if the fuel is flowing.

My cold start process is: hold a tiny bit of throttle, choke all the way out and crank. It normally catches straight away, then immediately put the choke most of the way in (depending on how cold the weather is) and rev for a few seconds. Of course, all 4s are different, so it's just trial and error.

Oscaro.com has a good range of R4 parts if you know what you're looking for.

 

[Mike313]

On my F6, I always have to use the full choke to start. It normally starts on the first or second turn of the key. I then push it in to 3/4 choke and drive away. After a few hundred yards I can push it in to half choke. I leave it on half choke for about a mile, until I've negotiated some junctions so it won't cut out when I'm pulling away at these junctions. I'm then on a straight stretch so I can then push it in. Normally then I can come back and start it without the choke during the day ... until it's been parked overnight in which case it's the same procedure all over again ...

 

[benchseat]

Contrary to what Angel says, some later R4s do have an accelerator pump : specifically the 845cc vehicles for the 1984 to 1987 model years (and possibly some later ones).

These have a Solex carburettor which is monstrously complicated and an absolute b***ard to set up properly.

If your car has one of these, try pulling the choke absolutely full out and turning the starter for 20 seconds or so. My 845cc, which has one of these Solex monstrosities, needs this when it has been standing for a day or two and never fails to start : but you need a good battery.

If this doesn't work, get someone to see to setting up the carb properly in addition to the work recommended on the other posts. Don't change the carb : once these Solexes are set up properly you get really good performance and fuel economy.

I'd also recommend getting the largest possible battery that will fit on the battery tray. Mine is a 100AH one off a diesel car and has made starting much more predictable.

 

[angel]

Yes, the Solex 32 EISA / SEIA and also Zenith 32IF7 had an accelerator pump, but were fitted to relatively low number of R4s.

I don't have any problem filling the fuel bowl of the 28IF with a 45 Ah battery, it's about 15-20 sec of cranking (easy cranking on the little engine...)

What Mike313 describes is a typical routine of a perfectly set Zenith 28IF equipped R4!

 

[51steve]

Hello Everyone,

Sorry for taking so long to reply, I have to go to a bar for internet (not a bad thing). I did a tune up of the engine, have it running, but it is still hard to start in the morning, I'll tweak it a bit more and tell you the results.

Thanks again!

 

[politeperson]

Dont forget petrol only lasts a few months now it does not contain lead! It goes off in your tank, becomes difficult to burn. I swear it even smells funny. Old petrol used to last longer I am sure.

 

[herbacious_harley_37]

Sounds just like my Renault 5 Supercinq Automatic takes several goes to start when cold however if it has been driven will start straight away!

 

[51steve]

All-right

The latest- I seem to have the car running well. I engage the starter and after maybe a half second pull out the choke a bit and it fires right up. I used the guide posted here (thanks!) to set my timing and all seems well. Next is to remove and treat the rust on the rear panels before it gets out of hand!

Thanks for everyone's help!

Steve

 

[51steve]

Another update on hard starting-

It was cold enough to test if the 4L started up any easier now that it was tuned up. In short it was still hard starting. So I put just a trickle of gasoline into the carb and it fired right up as if it were a fine summer's morning.

So I assume that the carb might to be adjusted a bit, but since I normally am using the car in the warm months only I will let sleeping dogs lie, (Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien) and make no adjustments to the carb lest I mess up the fuel economy of the car (currently approximately 6.5l per 100 km).

Thanks again to everyone's advice,

Steve