Estefette owner to be looking for import advice

[Matt-A24]

Hello hello,

For a bunch of reasons, I've set my heart on buying an Estefette in France, driving it home, and registering it in the UK.

I was researching the paperwork situation, and the registration process appears straightforward enough.

Apparently however, it appears to me that the law states that I, as a UK resident, am not permitted to drive a EU-registered car on the UK roads. I base this understanding on the fact that (1) EU Vehicles being permanently imported can't be driven until fully UK registered and (2) You have to be EU/non UK national to take advantage of the 'visiting' for up to 6 months gambit.

This obviously drove my plans onto the rocks, until I phoned a Renault 4 owning friend who suggested that this forum was rife with serial importers of Renaults, brimming with advice, and generally possessing of a more practical and laissez-faire interpretation of the regulations.

So, to finally get around to the point (sorry), when importing, do you drive home on French plates?

 

[malcolm]

A UK resident who might live in France could presumably pop home for a few days before returning to France without being required to register the car. Or maybe want to bring the car back for some repairs before returning to France, or just drive over for a few days to show off his new purchase to UK friends. Who is to say you don't change your mind when you get home and decide to register it in the UK.

I think the rules are more about stopping people driving around on French plates permanently.

I've always driven the cars back. Just avoid parking tickets and speeding fines and make sure you have insurance and a CT. Some insurance companies are a bit fussy about foreign registered cars. Haggerty Insurance would allow you to drive back on the chassis number last time I checked.

 

[Matt-A24]

Hi Malcolm, thanks for the more practical take on matters! The various .gov.uk websites are all very stern on the subject, and it's nice to hear from someone who does it anyway.

A question on Insurance if I may? I have an excellent quote from Adrian Flux that will cover me on a Chassis Number until registration is complete, which sees me sorted on this side of the pond, but what about in France. French insurance seems to require a French address, and be a pain to cancel. Can you buy French 'day' policies?

Many thanks again,
Matt

 

[malcolm]

French everything requires a French address. They are annoying like that.

Harrarty will cover the French side of the trip on the chassis number if you let them know what you are doing.

 

[Matt-A24]

I ask because I remember seeing some EU regulation that stated that a EU vehicle couldn't be driven in it's home EU nation with insurance from another nation (Anywhere else, fine). This appears to be designed to stop me taking out a cheap Romanian policy on my UK car for use in the UK, or whatever. It also a appears to legally prevent a UK insurer covering a French car when it is still in France.

Have you ever been pulled or had your documents checked by a French copper?

I expect this is the second case this morning of me reading regulations in far too much detail

Ta,
Matt.

 

[Lobster]

I think as long as you aren't doing anything silly then the chances of being stopped in France are somewhere very much less than zero tbh. As long as you have insurance for in the UK and CT and Carte Gris then you'll be fine!

 

[Matt-A24]

Fair dos Lobster. I figured as much. It's reassuring to know how others do this (and get away with it) to reassure myself I'm not embarking on foolishness

 

[André4Renaults]

I live & work in the United Kingdom and am a British citizen born & bred. I drive a Citroen that's UK registered but was built in France and frequently (VERY frequently!) make trips via "Le Shuttle" to northern France to buy "certain alhoholic comestables" for my own personal consumption. My insurance company have infomed me that my insurance is good for driving in any country that's a member of the "E.U." (& several other countries as well) which I visit on business or on holiday, providing I stay less then 6 months & comply with local traffic laws ("G.B." sticker, hi-vis jackets, breathalyser kits, warning triangles & beam benders etc.) I rarely stay more than 6 hours on a booze run, but it's good to know that the cover is there, if I needed it!

I should have thought that if you (as a UK resident and UK citizen) buy a car & insure it in the U.K., using its chassis number to identify it then that insurance would cover that car to be driven in France and back to the U.K. too.

Just a thought......

 

[Matt-A24]

I should have thought that if you (as a UK resident and UK citizen) buy a car & insure it in the U.K., using its chassis number to identify it then that insurance would cover that car to be driven in France and back to the U.K. too.

Yes, indeed I thought the same until I caught the habit of looking laws up and checking. I'd advise against it as a hobby, doesn't do one any good at all.

According the the letter of the law, as I read it, if you did as you describe in the above quote, you'd be uninsured in France (as UK insurance can't insure a French-registered car in France), and entirely illegal in the UK (as the .gov.uk site says in big bold letters that a UK resident can't ever legally drive a foreign-registered car in the UK, except in some very specific circumstances).

It's all pretty boggy stuff, and I'm glad to hear that these restrictions seem to be more theoretical than enforced

 

[André4Renaults]

Yes, indeed I thought the same until I caught the habit of looking laws up and checking. I'd advise against it as a hobby, doesn't do one any good at all.

According the the letter of the law, as I read it, if you did as you describe in the above quote, you'd be uninsured in France (as UK insurance can't insure a French-registered car in France), and entirely illegal in the UK (as the .gov.uk site says in big bold letters that a UK resident can't ever legally drive a foreign-registered car in the UK, except in some very specific circumstances).

It's all pretty boggy stuff, and I'm glad to hear that these restrictions seem to be more theoretical than enforced

OOPS! Sorry, mate! I don't want to land anyone in trouble with les Gendarmes or the boys in blue! Best speak to a proper insurance broker or... why not hire a trailer & tow it back?

 

[malcolm]

I've always bought UK insurance on the chassis number. Tell the insurer you plan to buy the car in France and drive home from France. If they agree to insure you for that how can you not be insured?

In law the word 'reasonable' is important. It is not unreasonable to buy an Estefette from France and drive it home with current CT and insurance. A bit nutty perhaps but not unreasonable. The various laws are there to catch people being unreasonable. Do post photos of the trip.

 

[Matt-A24]

One final question on the matter of paperwork, then I promise I shall shut up on the topic indefinitely. Thank you for your insights so far

I'm looking at pre '75 vans for predictable reasons. Most of these have a "Carte Grise Collection", which I take to be classic/historic type of registration paperwork. Will this document, still in the name of the previous owner, allow me to register with the DVLA? (Plus a contract of sale and whatnot)

I ask partly because a French fellow I know ventured his opinion that a CGC registered vehicle cannot be exported.

I told him that I wouldn't be doing any French export paperwork anyway, whatever that might be, I was just going to drive onto a boat.

Many thanks yet again, and I will most definitely write up photograph my experiences for your entertainment

 

[malcolm]

Around 5 years ago Carte Gris Collection cars didn't need CT and couldn't drive further than their region. Cars were cheap then as they changed the rules to require a CT every 5 years and the French mechaniching of many cars wouldn't get through a CT.

I've registered a CDC car in the UK with no problems. DVLA will accept the Carte Gris.

Don't rely on the CT as evidence of condition by the way. Van I brought back last year had advisories for indicators and lights not working and a hole in the floor you could put your arm through. Thouough advisories but not the fail you might expect in the UK.

 

[Matt-A24]

Good news on the Carte Grise Collection. Not being able to leave one's region is a new one on me!

Yes, I've heard the CT is a bit flimsy by our standards. It must drive the Germans nuts.

The fellow who pointed me to this forum bought his Renault 4 with a CT that said something like "Advisory: Owner forgot to leave keys, so interior and engine not tested".

(Is CDC a typo, by the way?)

Thanks again

 

[hilarystone]

You can get export insurance in France from these people.

http://souscription.auto-temporaire.com/index.html

Cost depends on Puissance Fiscale (CV rating). Up to 10CV it's 40 euros for one day cover. (11CV and above is 59 euros). That covers you on both sides of the channel, so no need to get insurance on UK side until you're ready to register it.
The only fly in the ointment is that they need a copy/scan of your driving licence, and a copy of the Carte Grise....

Hilary Stone

 

[Apprentice]

All interesting stuff. So much for the SINGLE Borderless Europe. No limit on the variety of methods that "member" states dream up to extract more and MORE dosh from US.
I love every mainland European country that I've visited. I just hate their law-makers. Hypocrites down to the last one.
And what a slap in the face for Les Frenchies and their carrying breathalizer kits in private vehicles - now declared "Unenforceable" !!!

January 2013 - the French government announced that the implementation of the sanction for drivers not carrying a breathalyser – a fine of €11 – has been postponed indefinitely.

So theoretically you are still required to carry a self-test breathalyser when driving in France but there is no current legislation demanding a fine for non-compliance.

yup!


So, safest plan has to be trailer job to get your purchase home, and all you have to ensure is:
suitable towing vehicle;
trailer conforms to Construction and Use Act;
I.D. plate displays Manufacturers name;
year of manufacture,
gross permitted weight;

axle weight or weights;

tare;

obligatory lighting;

Rear marker plate if over certain length;

and anything I may have forgotten.

Most European traffic police will ask to see the trailer registration document, and test certificate which does not apply if the UK is your country of origin.

ALL European traffic police will INSIST on seeing the registration document relating to the vehicle sitting on the trailer, and a receipt if the person named as owner/keeper is not physically present. That may lead the cops to believe that you are towing for "hire or reward" so you will need a fitted tachograph, and the disc that records drivers hours etc....

Good Luck,

regards

dave