F6 Won't Start

[muchinlittler]

Hey, I hope everyone's well and having a good start to the week

I have a 1986 Renault 4 F6 that was running grand, but after stalling it reversing into my driveway it now won't start. When turning the key it'll more often than not just 'click' and then there's nothing, but occasionally it'll sound as if it's trying to get going. I took a quick video to show what it does when trying to start and the sound it makes:

I'm afraid my knowledge is very limited as I'm only really starting to learn how everything works myself. I took the battery off and charged it overnight, as well as checked the oil/water levels. My brother and I and currently troubleshooting what it might be, but if anyone was able to steer us in the right direction it'd be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Mat

 

[André4Renaults]

Without seeing the car in the flesh it sounds like the starter motor's not receiving enough current. If the battery's in good health and fully charged I'd check the following and in this order:
1/ Battery connections; are they shiny and tight?
2/ Car frame to engine block strap; somewhere there's a beaded earth strap that runs from the car body to the engine block, without which the huge current drawn by the starter motor would have to pass through the accelerator and choke cables, since the engine is mounted on rubber blocks.
3/ Starter motor connections; are they tight? One often missed is the solenoid operating wire; this is the thinner wire that runs from the ignition key to the starter solenoid.
4/ If none of the above appear to be the cause of your malady, borrow another battery, set of jump leads & then see if the car starts; if it does, the battery's at fault and no amount of charging will bring it back to good health!
5/ One more question: do the headlights go dim when the starter is engaged? If they do, a large amount of current is passing to the starter, but the starter's not turning, suggesting that the starter motor itself is at fault....

 

[muchinlittler]

Hey Andrew, thank you so much for the tips! I've just been out with the Haynes manual to check some things and found:

The battery connections seem clean and tight. I gave them a clean though and retightened them to be safe. I think I've found the earth cable too, and it looks to be connected tightly to the body. I've retighten it to be safe again though. I also checked the headlights as well and they stay bright all the time - no dimming when trying to start or leaving it for a few moments - so think the battery is safe.

I believe the starter is getting current too; I popped a voltmeter on it and numbers appeared. Everything connected to it is tight, so I'm pressuming that means it may be the starter motors given up?

 

[muchinlittler]

So I must have overlooked some connections when I checked originally. The starter was no longer getting charge according to the voltmeter so I had another look and found this corroded fellow:



From reading Haynes I'm pressuming this a HT (High Tension?) lead, so will have a root around to see if I have any spares and fingers crossed this is it

 

[André4Renaults]

Interesting that you say that the headlights "stay bright all the time-no dimming when you try to start". This may well mean the battery's in good health but it also suggests that current is NOT reaching the starter motor, as the headlights should dim when the starter is operated. I think the solenoid (that's the cylindrical bit on the top of the starter) isn't receiving a feed of current from the ignition switch. Further investigation is needed.....

 

[harbourseal]

Have you checked the ground lead (-) that runs from your battery to somewhere on the car?
Most of the time it is connected to the gearbox. If it is a loose connection there or a little corroded the current is not coming through.

 

[muchinlittler]

Heya, thanks for all the help - I hope you're having a good day too

My brother came round yesterday and we had a fiddle. We changed the distributor cap and plugs, and what I thought was the starter motor but he said it was a coil:



Following the cables from the battery lead to this bit under the engine - is that bit in the middle actually the starter motor?



I think I've been looking at the wrong bit for the earth too. Following from the battery to the gearbox I've found this connection - is the bolt there the earth?



I was previously thinking this was the earth, but am now thinking it just show how little I learnt from my Dad...



I'll have a look today at the connections I missed and give them a clean, and fingers crossed that's it

 

[Andy McGhee]

The earth strap to the gearbox - yes, it's the right one - could definitely do with a clean-up!
Here's a picture of the starter motor in situ, but with the manifold removed.

It's attached by three bolts:


It's worth checking that these are tight - the top two are easy, but the bottom one is tricky to do up and undo (it's a bolt and nut). You need the right tools and a lot of patience! The nut can sometimes work loose, and if it does, this can cause intermittent starting or no response at all - even though the ignition lights come on. The click you mention could well be a solenoid problem, as previously mentioned.
If you do have to replace the starter, it's worth covering the hole in the gearbox bellhousing with a cloth (top picture) to stop anything falling in
Hope the problem is the earth connection - good luck!

 

[muchinlittler]

Ahh, that's brilliant, thank you. I've cleaned the earth connector and put in a new bolt:



After fiddling with it yesterday though the 'click' stopped happening and now when you try to start it the dashlights come on, but nothing else. Is it the solenoid that makes the 'click'? I checked the coil cap on the coil when Andrew mentioned about the solenoid as I thought that was the starter, so I'll have a look at the correct bit this time! Might have to be a weekend jobby though. Thank you all for your patience and help

 

[André4Renaults]

Just to make it clearer, a big thick lead should go from the positive ("+") terminal of the battery to the solenoid and needs to be securely clamped at both ends. There's a thinner wire also connected to the solenoid and it is this wire that energises the solenoid. Check that this wire is securely attached to the terminal on the solenoid and, if it's loose, pull it off and gently crimp it tighter. If you have a voltmeter it might be worth checking that there's 12 volts reaching this terminal when the key is moved to the "start" position.

 

[muchinlittler]

Heya, I hope you're all having a good week so far

We've taken the starter motor out, tested it with a battery, and it looks like it's dead. We're going to see if it's possible to repair it; as well as if Dad had a spare one in the garage. Seems like we've found the issue though Thanks again for all the help.

 

[André4Renaults]

It's a bit far from you, but they might offer a mail-order service; Unit Exchange, in Borehamwood are excellent at restoring starter motors, dynamos etc.

Unit Exchange | Alternator and Starter Specialists | Hertfordshire

Unit exchange the alternator, starter motor and battery repair, replacement and refurbishment specialists based in Borehamwood , Hertfordshire.

www.unitexchange.com

Worth a try!

 

[muchinlittler]

Heya, I hope you're all well and having a good weekend

I'm happy to report it was the starter motor that had died, and having replaced it the van now starts:

We had also messed up the distributor cap, but managed to find out where things were meant to go so know that for next time too!

Thank you all again for the help; I'm so pleased it's running again

 

[Madjoiner]

The earth strap to the gearbox - yes, it's the right one - could definitely do with a clean-up!
Here's a picture of the starter motor in situ, but with the manifold removed.View attachment 31055

It's attached by three bolts:
View attachment 31056

It's worth checking that these are tight - the top two are easy, but the bottom one is tricky to do up and undo (it's a bolt and nut). You need the right tools and a lot of patience! The nut can sometimes work loose, and if it does, this can cause intermittent starting or no response at all - even though the ignition lights come on. The click you mention could well be a solenoid problem, as previously mentioned.
If you do have to replace the starter, it's worth covering the hole in the gearbox bellhousing with a cloth (top picture) to stop anything falling in
Hope the problem is the earth connection - good luck!

Is the best way to replace the starter to remove the manifold? Got mine to try replace.

 

[Andy McGhee]

Is the best way to replace the starter to remove the manifold? Got mine to try replace.

If it's a RHD 1108 or 845cc, you don't have to remove the manifold to get the starter out, but you'll probably have to remove the arrowed bracket. It's fiddly rather than difficult. (I took the photo last time I had to change the manifold gasket).



Ideas for LHD cars here:

Dépose du démarreur (moteur Cléon)

Dépose d'un démarreur de Renault 4 monté avec un moteur Cléon Fonte à 5 paliers

www.la4ldesylvie.fr