Headlights. and sidelights/indicators

[Paul Narramore]

Yesterday I fitted a pair of yellow halogen 60/55w headlight bulbs bought from Retrospec Parts (£14.20 inc. postage). I'll just have to see how good they are when I next take her for a drive at night, although as I'm a stop-at-home, that might not be for a while.

What I did notice whilst I was delving about under the bonnet was the awfully crusty wiring connections at the back of each sidelight/indicator. These proved very easy to remove although there was a lot of green slime at the bottom of each lens. All cleaned up - although I must replace the sealing rubber on one side, and with each terminal nice and shiny after cleaning up with emery cloth and coated with Vaseline, they all went back in place, although one of the internal brass terminals was broken. Neither indicator worked although one side turned out to be just a wonky bulb holder. After chatting to Mr Reno, I carefully drilled out the rivet holding the broken terminal into the bottom of it's socket and then struggled to find a tiny enough screw & nut. M3 would have been fine but I have nothing that small. A tiny self-tapper did the job with the internal brass fitting from an electrical connector block. A bodge, I agree, but it should have work............but didn't. Back this morning to check out that there's current reaching the lamps.

When I bought the R4, it came with a box containing a few spares, amongst them were three drivers side sidelight/indicator fittings, each one having an identically broken indicator terminals. Crappy design if you ask me.

I shall go back this morning to try to get the damned thing to work as there's the Classic Car Event at the Friars on Sunday, which I have booked to go to.

 

[reidalpine]

New bright shining headlight-Now if that don't let you see the darkness in the end of the tunnel,nothing won't -Reid.

 

[André4Renaults]

You could lose quite a lot of electrical power through shonkey wiring and connections. Take time to clean up the wiring and it'll repay you by not failing you at the roadside on a dark night! Give all your light lenses a good clean too. This can help a great deal towards better visibility at night. You could get more oomph for your watts by using a relay to switch the lights on and off-more advice available if you need it-just ask!

 

[Paul Narramore]

Thanks Andrew, fifty years on two and four wheels but happy to listen. I got my 'special tool' a tiny bulb holder with a probe on one wire and a bulldog clip on t'other end and checked out the power getting to the bodged lamp. Yes, live, but no indicators. Indicator dead. I carefully prized the female connector out of it's plastic cover, and discovered a tiny amount of corrosion. Cleaned up, a smear of Vasoline and it's working. So bodge works.

Andrew, I am always careful with electrical connections on cars and bikes and tend to take them apart, shine up everything brass then spray with a special silcone spray (sold by Maplins) or smear with Vaseline. With the Early GoldWing I'm re-commissioning the wiring which had been so butchered that I cut off the poor connections and replaced them with those wonderful crimped connections with combined shrink fittings.

The green 'seaweed' and jelly I found behind the nearside sidelight/indicator lens was caused by a rotting rubber gasket and an incorrect offside lens ie the tiny drain hole was at the top allowing rainwater in.

All coming along nicely and becoming more reliable by the day. I even 'fixed the broken 'foot' on the rear seat. It had broken at the weld but because of my lack of practice with my MIG,and the close proximity of upholstery, I made up an L-bracket and pop riveted it on. Not ideal but it will do until I become proficient.

 

[Paul Narramore]

Last night I had the chance to drive the car after dark and as expected, the headlight beams are poorer with the yellow halogen bulbs fitted. Dipped beams are fine but main beams got lost in the trees. So I think it's down to them being out of adjustment. The P45t base is a bit odd in that it's round with three tiny indentations - unlike the P43t base which has three locating tabs - as this makes it so easy to misalign the bulb when fitting it into the headlight bowl. With no way of positively locating them, I just made sure the middle of the three 'prongs' was at the top (say at 12 o'clock). An odd system.

Every now and again I get some clutch judder, not each and every time, which is irritating and makes hill starts annoying. I wonder how easily and quickly it takes to change the clutch?

I am presuming the lack of response to the Aylesford Friars Classic Car Day means precious few R4s will be there? Mr Mick and I will have a chat between ourselves then.

 

[retrospecparts]

It sounds like your bulbs are not located correctly. There is a small protruding part on the circumference of the bulb base which locates into a small slot in your headlight unit. The 3 electrical terminals (which I think you mean by "prongs") should not be sitting symmetrically: when properly located they should be angled slightly clockwise or anticlockwise depending on which side of the road the headlamp is made for driving on. (Some headlamps have a sliding plastic piece that can be slid either way to move the slot, to allow the correct bulb position for driving on either side of the road).

 

[Paul Narramore]

Thank you, I know the moveable plastic widget you refer to. I'll have another look.

(30mins later) Right. What a crappy design that is. The 'pimple' on the rim of the bulb is a mere 0.5mm deep and is really difficult to get it lined up with the minute slot in the plastic widget. And with the clips clipped down, how can the bulb be adjusted? It's a tight fit. I cleaned up the edge of the reflector with wet&dry, even gave it a light smear of copperslip but there's absolutely no way those bulbs will turn using the plastic widgets. The only way seems to be is to unclip the bulbs and remove them, move the plastic widgets to their new position, then replace the bulbs and re-clip them.

Neither Haynes nor the handbook is at all helpful on this matter.

 

[André4Renaults]

Something seems wrong here.... As Retrospecparts says, the bulb should have 3 electical connections, which connect to the plastic plug with the wires that power the light. These have noting to do with positioning the bulb in its holder (& my apologies if this is stating the obvoius) The edge of the metal part of the bulb should sit snugly in the bulb holder when it's fitted properly and the "locating lug" should slot into the gap in the movable plastic slider that moves slightly left or right, depending on the beam pattern direction required.

I'm at work now but will take some pictures of these bulbs when I have a chance & see if it helps you.

 

[Paul Narramore]

Andrew, Please re-read my last post as I have clearly mentioned what I found. The electrical tangs, prongs or whatever were only mentioned by me as once the bulb is finally clipped in place, that is what you see before shoving on the electrical block. Yes, I know the bulb should be 'snugly' and the locating lug, all 0.5mm of it, should fit into the moveable plastic slider, but it's damned difficult to see when it IS located, and if the moveable plastic slider has to be set for driving on the left or driving on the right, THE BULB HAS TO BE UNCLIPPED TO DO THIS. The bulb won't just slide gently a few mm to one side or another. I just think it both a poor design and the explanation in the handbook unclear. Which effing way should the movable plastic slider be set (slaps forehead in frustration)?.To the left or to the right.

(Later) Sorry Andrew. I seem to have come across as a bit abrupt there. Dead easy questions really. To adjust the headlight for UK or Europe, I cannot just turn the mini adjustors because the bulb is such a tight fit in the headlight reflector. And anyway, neither Haynes nor my handbook states which way, left or right.

 

[retrospecparts]

Take the bulb out and look at the what the sliding plastic piece does and you will understand why you can't move it when the bulb is fitted: It moves side to side within a wider gap. Depending on which way you slide it, it leaves enough room for the locating lug on the bulb on one side or the other of the clip. The plastic bit is not there to move the bulb within a single slot. It is there to enable you to uncover a different slot for each of the two possible required bulb positions. Once you have uncovered a slot in the desired position, you can then fit the bulb into it.
I can't remember for certain which way you slide the clip for which side of the road you are driving without looking at one (& it's 1.40am now, so I'm not going to look now!) but I think that (when looking at the back of the light unit), as sliding the clip anticlockwise reveals the slot on the clockwise side of the plastic slider, that will allow the bulb to be fitted in the more clockwise position, so the kick-up in the beam pattern will be on the left, to light the curb for driving on the left-hand side of the road.....I think!

 

[Paul Narramore]

Phew! Thanks for that. I've found crouching down there wearing varifocals, it was really difficult to see that there are, as you say, two slots to chose from. I am surprised that the factory handbook couldn't have explained it as well as you just have. Thank you again. I am a bit surprised this topic has not come up before. Perhaps few owners take their cars abroad or add a triangle of black tape to their headlights?

 

[André4Renaults]

No problem and no offence taken. Glad you have sorted it out. It might help if you think of it in this way: The glass part of the headlamp deflects the beam of the light when the dipped beam is switched on. When you examine the glass part of a headlight of a 1970-80s car there's an area that's usually approximately triangular (bit like a wedge of cheese) and it is this part that one has to tape over when driving in France. If you look at the glass less of old Renault 4s the lens has TWO areas to deflect the dipped beam, arranged symmetrically around the vertical axis of the glass. By rotating the bulb slightly clock or anti-clockwise you are selecting which area of deflected glass the dipped beam will pass through.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Willing to bet this has been written about many times in the past
Not by me that I can remember
Pretty sure only rhd cars had this setup
All new lamps available today won't have the sliding plastic piece and need cutting to create a slot for correct position
Loads of posts about this subject as needed to get lhd cars through mot here
The 19 70s owners handbook had details of your system Paul
Would of replied earlier but I have facebook as well to answer questions on ☺

 

[Paul Narramore]

When I was at yesterday's classic car event, I got to look at Vincent Modica's car. Perhaps the light was better, perhaps my eyes improved, but I could easily see the moveable widget and the two slots. So to paraphrase all that has been said - 1. Remove the bulb2. Slide moveable widget right (ie towards the offside of the car) 3. Replace bulb.

 

[André4Renaults]

When I was at yesterday's classic car event, I got to look at Vincent Modica's car. Perhaps the light was better, perhaps my eyes improved, but I could easily see the moveable widget and the two slots. So to paraphrase all that has been said - 1. Remove the bulb2. Slide moveable widget right (ie towards the offside of the car) 3. Replace bulb.

Yep! Gotcha!