Purchased on impulse

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Hi my name is Steve Addison and I have this week bought a 1990 Renault 4TL on impulse. I have owned quite a few classic cars in the past but nothing quite like this and to be honest I am not sure why I did it but something just kept pulling me back to it on Ebay. So there you have it a V8 American car devote who now owns a LH Renault 4 in need of a makeover. I found you guys whilst starting to research what to do next and your site is very well constructed compared with many club sites I have used in the past. The problem is that most car make clubs and forums like keeping the cars as standard classics and there is nothing wrong in that but my desire is to keep the classic looks but modernise the running gear. So with that in mind are there any obvious directions that I can follow for improving the suspension / brakes and engine/gearbox along with changing the wheel stud pattern from 3 to 4 for improved wheel choices. I do appreciate this may be very wrong in some people’s eyes but to me doing this I get the best of both worlds classic looks yet relatively modern running.
thanks for listening and if I have done something wrong on my first post please let me know
Steve

 

[Lobster]

Hi Steve and welcome along, Nothing wrong with modified R4s around here

In terms of upgrades then theres plenty you can do although most straightforward upgrade bits come from Mk1 R5s which are probably rarer than the R4 these days. You can fit the 1.4 engine from a later R5 complete with fuel injection and whatnot - have a search on here for a thread on it.

As for changing to a four stud pattern I'm not sure - its possible but whether its easy is a different question.

Oh, you might want to change your location details in your profile too as its perhaps a little too exact!

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Hi Steve and welcome along, Nothing wrong with modified R4s around here

In terms of upgrades then theres plenty you can do although most straightforward upgrade bits come from Mk1 R5s which are probably rarer than the R4 these days. You can fit the 1.4 engine from a later R5 complete with fuel injection and whatnot - have a search on here for a thread on it.

As for changing to a four stud pattern I'm not sure - its possible but whether its easy is a different question.

Oh, you might want to change your location details in your profile too as its perhaps a little too exact![/qu

Thanks for the information I will follow that line of thought ---- I have changed my address as suggested, I thought it meant your full postal address. I noticed you are a die cast model supplier in Burnley, when I lived in Bolton I used to buy models from a shop close to you in Barrowford, probably closed down now as that was years ago
Steve

 

[pepper]

Welcome to the forum, a lot of us don't have standard cars on here, I am most disgruntled by malcolm taking my car out the restorations because I've left the body in a tatty state

Mines running a bigger carb alloy wheels and a bigger engine. All is good as long as they are bringing enjoyment to people!

Lobsters right though changing from 3 to 4 std hubs would be damm difficult. But changing the engine to a 1.4 or even a 1.6 turbo or non turbo is an easy change.

 

[malcolm]

What have I done? I reckon you are pressing the wrong button Pepper.

I'm a purist of course and wouldn't think about changing engine or brakes like that bugger in the restoration link above. Plenty of parts sharing opportunities with other Renaults of the era or even later.

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Thanks Pepper and Malcolm for replying to my post, I hope you are having a healthy banter and that I have not instigated a rift. I am glad the people on this forum represent a broad view of opinion, I was once a member of an American forum where the reactions to certain subjects was just a few steps short of brutal. I realise I have a lot of investigative work and research to carry out before I decide which route to take on this project. Looking through past posts on the matter of engine upgrades it’s clear that there are people on here with a great depth of knowledge when it comes to codes and interchange, hopefully I will end up making a good compromise. The car I have bought is a French import stated on the log book as 1990 and 1108 cc but the seller who registered it (apparently it took him 6 months to sort) was a little unsure on its previous history or authenticity, he believed it came from the French postal service. As I was planning to change things it was not so important to me about what had been, but more about what I could do going forwards. Once I have done more research I have no doubt I will need you guys again.

Cheers

Steve

 

[malcolm]

Keep us posted - sounds like an interesting project. The Mk 1 Renault 5 engine fits easily (Gordini Turbo is quickest. I've got the Gordini atmo engine in mine which is reasonably quick.) Or you can just add a catb and inlet manifold from the 1108 Renault 5 for an extra 10 bhp.

Though I notice 7L Corvette crate engines are available for 10 grand. That would be entertaining.

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Yeh sure would be entertaining; it would be like building a Renault shaped coffin. Never had 7lt but I have had a 1970 dodge charger which if I remember correct was 6.2 lt.

I do appreciate your information; it just helps speed up the decision making. I was not looking to go silly in any way but I absolutely love the gear shift exiting the dash so if I could retain the gearbox that would be great. I would be happy for an upgrade to 1.4 with a good carb/manifold set up and better exhaust. If that can be achieved from a Renault 5 engine then I can commence my search for a suitable unit. I assume that because the change is not substantial the existing front disc and rear drum set up would cope with the increased unit providing they have been replaced with new parts and overhauled. If his is the case which engine/carb or model/year of R5 should I be searching for.

Whilst I can see from the replies, people feel the change to 4 stud pattern wheel not a good move is there any choice of 3 stud wheels out there other than looking at the Gordini style. When I initially bought the car I envisaged sitting the car slightly lower with a wider wheel and tyre combination, this was done on our last classic a 1972 VW camper and it was fab. If this is possible on 3 stud then I could stay with the std set up.

Off for a few days holiday now so hopefully when I return my thoughts will be clearer.

I have attached a couple of photos for your interest showing how some of our last classics have been treated. Hopefully I have loaded them right but they have positioned themselves at the top of this post ??

Thanks for your help

Steve

 

[Eoynteenie]

Hey Steve, my 85 GTL is under the restoring stage at the mo and as there are quite a few standard GTLs already and this rebuild is burning money fast i'm not interested in the factory look. I have seen 4 stud R4's in google searches but there are other options i've been looking at. Found companies that make alloys from scratch to fit any PCD, others that plug the old olds and re drill the new PCD and I'm having my GTL steels banded to get some stance.

Or you can just add a catb and inlet manifold from the 1108 Renault 5 for an extra 10 bhp.

​

These are rare as well as debating about going down this road as have been talking to Derek at Renospeed (something else to google for you) about this idea.

Just stick a motorbike engine in there with a RWD set up this way you can still keep the dashboard gear stick.

But welcome, you are far from the world of dubs and american muscle cars.

Also was it the blue R4 or the White R4 on ebay? Or one i missed completely?

 

[pepper]

No rift here, was just being silly

I like banded steel wheels!

I also like the steel wheels they put on the Alpine atmos in France!

 

[Lobster]

The car I have bought is a French import stated on the log book as 1990 and 1108 cc but the seller who registered it (apparently it took him 6 months to sort) was a little unsure on its previous history or authenticity, he believed it came from the French postal service.

Is it the one that was in Scarborough? I saw that the seller of that thought it was ex French Post Office but i suspect he was wrong - R4s were available in showrooms for retail sale up until the end of production in 1992 although UK sales stopped in 1986. I'm fairly sure that all the PTT cars were yellow and didn't have the small window in the rear quarters either.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Think most people on this forum at least are fairly open minded to modified cars
the blue one lives in London i think and has been around for 10 yrs i think the owner said gordini powered and lower d
saw it for the first time at recent meeting in kent
mine is the yellow peril 1647cc built by me in 1995 can advise you on possible mods and parts interchangeable between models as have worked on renault since 1974

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Hi everybody i really appreciate all the responses ---- just away for a couple of days at Goodwood so i will respond properly to you all when i get home ---- yes the car was from scarborough but the guy selling did say he was not sure about any history --- his intension was to restore it as he was into all things french but some bad luck with his business left some debts which he had to repay so i believe it was either the R4 or his Vincent motor bike and as he said the bike is his life --- i guess it was no contest --- as i say i will respond in more depth when i return
Cheers
Steve

 

[Eoynteenie]

I also remember being told that the 1.4s out of the Volvo 340's are a similar engine if you get stuck finding engines. Dunno how true it is thou.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_300_Series

The 300 Series had a choice of three petrol engines; a 1.4, 1.7, and a 2.0-litre. The 1.4 litre B14 was a Renault C-series OHV pushrod unit,

 

[mr-reno-139]

Volvo engine based on renault designed for conventional layout ie water pump at opposite end to flywheel and camshaft ends flush with block yes it can all be modified and changed around with a bit of thoughtand engineering to the cylinder head but the standard camshaft for the 1108 engine xxx is not ideal 4 power on 13 97

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Hi everybody ---- I have had a chance to take in what has been said and I have had the vin number from my car checked by a Renault dealer ---- they say it is a 1990 built car with a 1108 engine so that being the case

1) Would the manifold and carb in my R4 be the same as the one being suggested by Malcolm from an R5 as the manufacture dates cross over or were they different.

2) I must have viewed hundreds of pictures of the R4 by now and it appears that the "Gordini's" seem to sit with a lower stance ---- is the suspension on this version different or has it just been adjusted down.

3) The car I have is marked as a Savane ---- is this just a styling difference from the commonly referred to 4TL and GTL

4) All the workshop manuals I seem to see stop at 1986 ---- is it safe to assume that the 1990 car would be broadly the same

4) You said that you were having your wheels banded ---- have you had them back and if so have you any photos and did it break the bank


I apologise in advance if some of this stuff seems basic but talking to my local motor factors on these matters attracts a wide range of answers ( not all helpful as some seem to think the best place is the breakers yard ---- in jest I hope ) --- also should I be carrying on this conversation in another section of the forum now that the initial intro has happened.


thanks in advance

Steve

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

This stance would be great for what I have in mind ----- not sure how it is achieved yet
but would love to replicate it
Steve

 

[malcolm]

The Savane was originally 956cc. It shares the same block as the 1108 but has smaller pistons and liners. It was a bargain basement model.

The Gordini engine was not fitted to the R4 as standard so all are conversions. It is fairly easy to lower the suspension by removing the torsion bars and refitting a spline out per inch of lowering. The rear torsion bars tend to be seized in place and tricky and you need to make a tool for the front (see tech tips) Mine is standard height.

 

[STEPHEN ADDISON]

Thanks for that Malcolm, you are very good and quick at replying. I did wonder about the R4 Gordini being a factory option as I could not find a reference to it in a manual on the net. Could I ask, is this web site yours and are you a business or just a devoted R4 follower. In any event it is really well thought out and full of useful stuff, the pictures of your work are especially helpful. if it is yours and you do the monitoring and updating you should be pleased with yourself.
One last thing should I be moving onto another section of the forum ?
Most greatfull
Steve

 

[Lobster]

2) I must have viewed hundreds of pictures of the R4 by now and it appears that the "Gordini's" seem to sit with a lower stance ---- is the suspension on this version different or has it just been adjusted down.

3) The car I have is marked as a Savane ---- is this just a styling difference from the commonly referred to 4TL and GTL

4) All the workshop manuals I seem to see stop at 1986 ---- is it safe to assume that the 1990 car would be broadly the same


Steve

2 - R4 ride height seemed to vary a bit anyway, some where lower than others from the factory but as Malcolm says you can lower them by removing and refitting the torsion bars. Rears can be a challenge though!

3 - Later R4s were badged as Savane (TL) and Clan (GTL) in Europe so yep justa styling difference.

4 - UK sales stopped in 1986 so all the English manuals end then but a 1990 will be pretty much the same.