R4F4 van points

[Will Bashall]

I have bought a Renault 4 van from France, off leboncoin. 1983/4. 845 cc engine and all very original. It has a Ducellier distributor and I need to change the points and condensor. The fixed point is connected to a sprung and threaded bolt with a small nut on the outside of the distributor to adjust the gap. It seems the only way to take this apart and replace the points is to take the distributor off. Is this correct? And if so, do I need to re time it all on reassembly or just mark the body of the distributor and engine block and line it all up on reassembly? Where will I get new points and condenser from? Any advice appreciated.

 

[Azazello]

I have a distributor with the same setting way but (from the code) it is from a 956 r5. Unfortunately I have never serviced it so I can't answer you... it is a nice operating way, but I hope there is a easier way of working instead of taking the dist off.

 

[harbourseal]

Hi Will, Can you put a photo of the points on the forum. I havent seen any distributors that needs to be taken off the engine to replace points.

regards, Robert

 

[mr-reno-139]

The externally adjustable ducellier points can be changed in situ but very fiddly you need long nose pliers to hold spring back or best still small thin nose mini mole grips after first slackening the adjusting nut flush to give most clearance and then rotate points upside down to un hook from square bolt head
Be aware there is supposed to be black spring clip holding points in place easily lost which has a plastic cover on body for acess
There is a special stepped screw on the adjuster slot with 2 washers 1 flat 1 curved
Advise pictures for your own reference in any case
If you remove nut you will really struggle compressing spring to reassemble in situ

Unless you are lucky enough to find good quality points with brown Fibre heel on them expect to carry dwell meter on board for the frequent adjustment you will be doing

 

[Will Bashall]

Thanks for your helpful responses. Here is an image I took before I started to take apart.
I understand what you mean by turning the fixed point upside down to extract. Quite a fiddle. I think it would be more straightforward to just take the distributor out and work on the bench or will I have timing issues when I replace it? Can you recommend where I would get replacement points and condenser? Or should I just replace with alternative distributor for future ease? Thanks.

 

[jonigel]

Keep the dizzy they are much easier to adjust whilst running ,but you still need to check timming after changing points.The ones you need are Valeo D309 they are original Ducellier,you should be able to get them from a good auto electrician, as mr reno said most aftermarket ones are not very good. Can be done in situ just a bit fiddly.

 

[jonigel]

I should have mentioned that they also are fitted to Volvo 340 might be easier to find,also the condenser No is D703 and rotor isD911.
Hope this helps.

 

[Will Bashall]

Jonigel, thanks for all your helpful information. I will source the points and condenser in the next few days. I will try and change them in situ to start with and see how I get on. Thanks very much also mr reno.

 

[Will Bashall]

Ok, so much for finding Valeo parts in this country. No joy unless anyone knows of a supplier with the requisite stash. Or does jonigel have any suppliers in France? What are the German made parts, Beru?, like, as supplied by dervfranzose? It seems Lucas and inter other are easily available. Worth trying if no Valeo? I have resorted to removing the distributor and it is altogether much easier. I noted the clip and stepped screw and two washers as advised by mr reno. I would not have managed that in situ.
On the gear change bushes now, is it possible to drive out the nylon bush in the gear lever tube, through to the exit in the engine compartment and replace in reverse order?

 

[jonigel]

I get most of my parts from Oscaro but apparently they dont deliver to England,there is a company called Misterauto.fr that have a site in England they may have the same stock.
I have them all in stock but i am not sure how much the postage would be, unfortunately the post has got expensive all over recently.
Beru are ok they are made in Europe,its mostly the cheap imports that give the problems.
Are you refering to the gear lever bush inside the car? if yes the answer is no just undo the bolts in the middle of the shaft and pull it back into the cabin.

 

[Will Bashall]

I will get Beru from der franzose and see how it goes. Valeo will have to await my next trip to France. I tried mister auto in uk, but no joy.
On the gear lever bush, I have split the linkage above the engine and taken the lever part back into the cabin. There is a bush in the tube that gear lever came out of at the cabin end of the tube. I was wondering if this could be pushed out of the tube from the cabin into the engine end, and a new one pushed back in from the that direction too? The book says to remove a lip on the tube at the cabin end, but there is nothing obvious other than an indenture in the tube that stops the bush coming out at the cabin end. If that all makes sense....

 

[mr-reno-139]

I was lucky last year to buy some new old stock lucas points from ebay as they were old enough to be made with a fibre heel
The non genuine parts made by intermotor lucas ci etc for last 15 20 years have all been poor substitute with plastic heel usually white in colour often brown which doesn't help if they are sealed in a blister pack
I have even had poor quality copies supplied by renault in the past under genuine part number without the ducellier name printed on parts or packaging
Mr auto does list valeo points btw screen shot from the app which links to website
Unfortunately no pics to confirm on listing

 

[jonigel]

I had a look at that bush just now ,out of curiosity ,can you replace it? I think if i was to take it out i would push it back into the cabin it only has to go a couple of inches plus the three little indents in the tube are at the rear of the bush so it would free off more easily.
Interesting price on those points,mr reno they are about 7 euros here, but i think the lower one is possibly a complete dizzy as there are a few people selling them here for around about 100 euros.

 

[angel]

First part number is a weird points set for a Marelli Distributor - I have never seen it on a R4.

Second part number is the normal GTL Ducellier points set without the tab for the spring as on Will's F4.

Prices are outrageous!

 

[Will Bashall]

Points, condenser and gear linkage bushes coming this week from der franzose, so will fit them this weekend. I will see which way of removing bush in the tube makes most sense. Haynes talks about using a screwdriver to take a lip off and then replacing after, but as you say, there is no lip, just a couple of indentations.
Mr auto points look pricey.

 

[malcolm]

The bush in the tube to the cabin can only come out into the cabin. Normally there is a push on rounded black plastic cap that pushes into the tube to retain the bush. This tends to fall off and the bush falls out. The gear stick needs to be disconnected above the engine and withdrawn before the bush can be pushed out.

Why do you want to replace it? Is the gearstick rattling like mad? Not already missing is it?

 

[Will Bashall]

There is the round black plastic cap on the end of the tube. With the gear stick out, it looks like there are small indentations in the tube which hold the bush in place, or at least stop it moving into the cabin end of the tube. There is some play in it, but much more in the bush above the radiator. I am just working through a few jobs on it, having only had it for a year or so.