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Removing headlining

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bison

Enthusiast
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Hello Folks,
Long time since I posted anything on the forum, sorry.
Does anyone know how difficult it is, and how to, remove the headling from a 1976 TL?.I would like to sound insulate the roof area but certainly don't want to damage anything while doing so. I'm pretty sure it's the fabric type lining as opposed to the hard plastic I read about. From what I've read on previous postings it would seem insulating this area makes a big difference to the noise level inside the car. I was thinking of using the bitumen type panels as advertised on fleebay.
Thanks,
Alan.
 
Alan - suggest you wait until Malcolm replies as he has lots of experience in sound deadening. So don't remove the headlining just yet!!
Steve
 
Oh that's me!

Don't use bitumen style sound deadening on the roof. That's for vibration damping, and there's very little vibration energy that gets to the roof panel as it dissipates in the pillars. That's why cars don't need swaging in the roof.

A good covering of foam or fibre material is a much better choice - that helps absorb noise as it bounces off the roof. There are already 3 strips on there, but a full coverage would probably help.

I'd not attempt to remove the early roof lining with the cardboard inserts at the side. It just tears. The later roof linings on French cars are OK as they have smaller plastic inserts. So impossible to remove is my thought, but if you attempt it remove the front part with the sun visors then work your way around the edges pulling the metal holding the cardboard insert with a wide metal implement (not a screwdriver) and be very careful.
 
headlining

Thanks Malcolm, I think perhaps I'll give it a miss then, the headlining is in really nice condition. Any tips on how to reduce the noise levels then?. We drove from Edinburgh down to a holiday home in Normandy in 2008, the car performed faultlessly, but it took a week to regain my hearing!!!, we're doing the same this year in June and I would like to do something about it. It's surprising how tiring it makes a longish journey. Do you think a more efficient silencer might work?, for some reason I have the later rear mounted silencer fitted. I've wrapped the pipe from the manifold in heat bandage, that helped a bit.
Alan.
 
I always thought it was the noise around the door frames that was the worst part of these cars and then I'd look at soundproofing the bulkhead to give it more quietness, there's a reason why most modern cars have double bulkheads!
 
headlining

Malcolm,
I've got some open cell foam, sort of egg crate pattern, 35mm thick. I wondered if it might be suitable for inside the doors. Do you think that might help?. I'm going to buy some aluminium lined heat proof insulation for the bulkhead and fit in on the engine bay side, perhaps inside the bonnet too. Any comments?.
Alan.
 
even if I have done a fair bit of sound-dampening on Roffen I always tends to use earplugs for longer journeys.
Experience with the plugs to find Just how far you push them in to be able to hear the motor etc but taking the tiresome noise away.
-You can even get very comfy ear-plugs meant for when on the shooting-range, these are supeb as they dampen only sounds/noise with a high risetime meaning the sudden sound of a shot etc. You will still be able to listen to the co-pilot Or you can turn them around which quells co-pilot out alltogether.. -R.
 
Yep, I used them on the journey to France, but I didn't know about the shooting earplugs, they sound just right. It was in fact as you say either can't hear anything or can hear too much.
I especially like the idea of being able to tune out my co pilot when the need arises, like taking a wrong turning, or stopping by that nice little pottery market!!!
Thanks.
Alan.
 
bison said:
Malcolm,
I've got some open cell foam, sort of egg crate pattern, 35mm thick. I wondered if it might be suitable for inside the doors. Do you think that might help?. I'm going to buy some aluminium lined heat proof insulation for the bulkhead and fit in on the engine bay side, perhaps inside the bonnet too. Any comments?.
Alan.
Click to expand...

I've never tried to soundproof a R4 before so I'll be guessing until I get to try out the Gordini.

One think I've noticed recently is my GTL is a whole lot quieter with a couple of inches of snow on the bonnet.

Together with your own observations I suspect it is possible to cut down engine noise with absorbing (foam based) materials in the engine bay. They can go anywhere, but engine side of the bulkhead or underside of bonnet would probably reduce the noise reflecting around in there, and hence reduce the noise available to get into the cabin.

The silver facing reduces effectiveness quite a bit, but it does help protect the foam. Car manufacturers tend to use a felt faced material, and the R4 engine bay stays fairly clean so it might be an option.

If you plan to put it on the engine side of the bulkhead buy some of that bitumen stuff and put that in the bulkhead first (underneath it). That will help a lot by reducing the transparency of those panels. Most of the soundproofing used in modern cars is on the bulkhead. I'm considering treating the inside of my bulkhead with the rubber material with foam backing and potentially absorbing materials on the underside of the bonnet.

I don't think treating the door inner panels will help much.
 
The sound deadening under the bonnet does some fairly good job, but the negative effect is that it cuts down on heat dissipation, too. Guess where that heat is radiated from? Yes, from the bulkhead, through the passenger compartment...In winter it is nice, but in summer not! :-D That means you must insulate the whole bulkhead.
As the TL's silencer is under the front wing, it contributes a lot to the cabin noise. I noticed it when switching from my 845 to the Jogging (rear mounted silencer). Even with a sunroof and absolutely no extra sound proofing, I can talk at reasonable levels with the passengers.
I have even met quieter and noisier 845s, just because they were fitted with different make silencers .
 
Can anyone tell me how i remove the hard plastic R4 headliner, i have some dints in the roof which need knocking out.cheers Alan.
 
When I repaired the plastic roof liner on ronnie the renault, I installed a multi foil insulation, like in the cargo hold of the space shuttle. Its used these days in building insulation esp in France. Heres why. Its made of between 10 and 15 mirrored plastic sheets, like emergency blankets. with a foam spacer between each sheet, and it reflects heat out, and reflects heat in, and also absorbs sound. I managed to get a layer in, on top of the plastic, and it had done the job. The french use iyt in homes because it reflects the heat out in the summer. Its made by a company called Actis, and is available in rolls. Best to find a builder using it and ask for couple of metres
 
In answer to your question 'how to remove the hardshell headliner', firstly at the front you'll need to remove both sunvisors (and the rearview mirror if this is fixed through the headliner). At the rear, prise out the white plastic studs fixing the headliner internally above the tailgate. You will then be able to lift and prise in both sides of the headliner above the doors (sounds drastic, but there's enough flex in the headliner). As a precaution, you may wish to remove the internal light to avoid damage to the lens cover before extracting the entire headliner shell in one piece through the tailgate opening. All this should be completed within five minutes, so best of luck with your roof dents, together with the opportunity to incorporate roof insulation as recommended by Edwin. Best of luck!
 
Another thing I did for sound proofing was get some good underlay from a carpet fitters skip, an off cut which I put all over the floor and up the angled bit under the rubber mat. That helped the sound deadening enormously. There are various types, but I went for the best quality wool and rubber. Its heavy and supportive. Even carefully selected used underlay is good, but not any of the foam stuff. And out of the skip its FREE! Yet another thing I have done is this. The bar in the door that connects the metal pad you press to open the door to the lock mechanism rattled dreadfully in my car. There are little circular sponge dampers on them, but after 40 years they have lost their sponginess and shrunk. So i cut up a sponge and wrapped it round the bar in the space in the door which holds it in place, and its done the trick, the bar is damped and the car is way quieter.
 
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