Renault 4GTL 1128 Rear Brakes Girling or Bendix?

[jcarruthers2]

Hi All

I was wondering if anyone knows if a rear brake set up on a Renault 4GTL /Oval Plate No: 1128/ 1984 could possibly have Girling wheel cylinders and Bendix Brake Shoes. The brake shoes are definitely Bendix. I ordered these and they are correct. I also ordered the Bendix wheel cylinders and these look incorrect as the 10mm securing bolt holes on the new ones do not line up with the bolt holes on the back plate. The overall length of the new and old cylinders are the same.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards

Chris

 

[Sage103]

Hi All

I was wondering if anyone knows if a rear brake set up on a Renault 4GTL /Oval Plate No: 1128/ 1984 could possibly have Girling wheel cylinders and Bendix Brake Shoes. The brake shoes are definitely Bendix. I ordered these and they are correct. I also ordered the Bendix wheel cylinders and these look incorrect as the 10mm securing bolt holes on the new ones do not line up with the bolt holes on the back plate. The overall length of the new and old cylinders are the same.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards

Chris

This sounds like the issue I was faced with - externally the back brakes on my 4GTL looked like Girling but on the inside they were Bendix. I made the mistake of assuming that they were Girling and spent long hours finding new Girling backplates (with their characteristic drain aperture) - the originals were corroded beyond repair. Eventually I found that Citroen AX backplates could be made to work.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Pics would help as there are several types of bendix and several types girling with auto and manual adjust
Front and rear handbrake is another scenario
Yes I know yours is front discs
But the aftermarket catologue and cross reference database is flawed
Further remember bendix and girling don't exist and more
Bosch replaces bendix
Can't remember girling
Also it is possible to have a girling designed system and then use aftermarket shoes or cylinders in bendix boxes as they copied design etc
Oh yes then there different diameter cylinders ☺☺☺☺
Have fun

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi All

I was wondering if anyone knows if a rear brake set up on a Renault 4GTL /Oval Plate No: 1128/ 1984 could possibly have Girling wheel cylinders and Bendix Brake Shoes. The brake shoes are definitely Bendix. I ordered these and they are correct. I also ordered the Bendix wheel cylinders and these look incorrect as the 10mm securing bolt holes on the new ones do not line up with the bolt holes on the back plate. The overall length of the new and old cylinders are the same.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards

Chris

This sounds like the issue I was faced with - externally the back brakes on my 4GTL looked like Girling but on the inside they were Bendix. I made the mistake of assuming that they were Girling and spent long hours finding new Girling backplates (with their characteristic drain aperture) - the originals were corroded beyond repair. Eventually I found that Citroen AX backplates could be made to work.

Hi

Thank you for your reply and the info.

 

[jcarruthers2]

Pics would help as there are several types of bendix and several types girling with auto and manual adjust
Front and rear handbrake is another scenario
Yes I know yours is front discs
But the aftermarket catologue and cross reference database is flawed
Further remember bendix and girling don't exist and more
Bosch replaces bendix
Can't remember girling
Also it is possible to have a girling designed system and then use aftermarket shoes or cylinders in bendix boxes as they copied design etc
Oh yes then there different diameter cylinders ☺☺☺☺
Have fun

Hi

Thank you for your reply and the info

 

[malcolm]

It's true that the hole spacing between Bendix and Girling is very slightly different - the difference is enough to stop them being interchangeable but not enough to be noticeable without offering the cylinder up.

It might be worth posting a photo of the backplate and the parts you have. Some pictures on here might help identify parts: http://www.renault4.co.uk/tech-brake-drums.htm

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi Malcolm

Thank you for your reply and advice.

Chris

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi Malcolm

I just had a look at the pics on the link very useful. The shoes are definitely the Bendix type as in the last photo but the cylinders look more like the Girling type in the first picture with the the longer rubbers sloping off at an angle (the Bendix ones I bought whereby the securing bolt holes don't line up, look like the cylinders in the last pic with the short stubby flat edged rubbers). Please see photo attached (incorrect new cylinder on the left, actual cylinder removed from car on the right). The photo is a photo of a photo, my apologies for the quality.

Any info will be greatly received. .

Chris

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi All

Correction to my last message. The distances from the two securing bolt holes to the central hole for the brake pipe are different. When you offer up the new cylinder
(the one to the left in the image) to the back plate and line up the x2 securing bolt holes to the backplate, the central hole for the brake pipe connection does not line up with the hole in the back plate. Hope this makes sense.

Thanks

Chris

 

[mr-reno-139]

My theory is you've got bendix system supplier has given you wrongly boxed items
What is make and part number of the new ones supplied ?
Simply measuring distance between bolt holes will identify the difference between ACTUAL R4 cylinders bendix and girling type

I would send them back but ebay purchases are not so easy if seller thinks he is correctly selling to his application listing

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi Paul

Thanks for the reply. The new ones supplied are made by 'Balco' Part No: WC-0054. The distance between the securing bolts centre to centre is 32mm on old and new cylinders. The problem is the distance between the brake pipe connector hole and the securing bolt holes. The distance between the bottom of the brake pipe connector hole and the centre of the two bolt holes on the new incorrect cylinders is 2cm and the same measurement on the old cylinders is 3cm. When you offer up the new cylinder to the securing bolt holes on the backplate the brake pipe connector hole on the cylinder does not line up with the brake pipe connector hole in the backplate.

Thank you for your advice.

Best Regards

Chris

 

[mr-reno-139]

I have tried to explain this as best as I can
I will go and measure my new bendix ones and if I've got some girling ones I can measure those as well I I am sure you have been supplied wrongly boxed items if you simply reorder some more bendix cylinders they will fit maybe you didn't understand my previous post
normally just comparing the bolt spacing will quickly identify bendix or girling
If these are from a different make up car example Peugeot then they're never going to fit
I rest my case check this picture

 

[jcarruthers2]

Hi Paul

Thank you for your reply and the trouble you have gone to. It looks like you have solved the mystery, the parts I received were boxed incorrectly!

One again

Thanks

Chris

 

[mr-reno-139]

I don't admit defeat easily have been at this game for 40 years
Hope you can get supplier to change for correct ones

 

[angel]

Wouldn't it be easier bending a little the brake pipe to fit, rather than going through all of that trouble to change them?

Regrding rear wheel brake cylinders, has anyone (Paul?) come across ones with a brake pipe bore for SAE flared pipe (like these on English cars)? Just found I have such a pair,fitted 15 years ago on my white '75.