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Replacing a 1.1 with a 1.3

roodini

roodini

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My car's finally given up on me, :( (must be the heat), I haven't managed to work out what's gone wrong as she's currently some miles from where I live, but judging by the sounds emanating from under the bonnet, it aint good news!:eek:
The demise of the 1108 though, gives me the opportunity to replace it with a R5 phase1 1.3 unit from an automatic.:D
What i'd like to know is, how big a job is it, is it straightforward mating the R4 gearbox to the R5 engine, how long should it take, do I need any special tools, etc etc etc.
As usual, any and all advice gratefully received.
Looking forward to hearing from you Steve:wink:

Thanks a lot, Rudi.
 
Of course it's your call depending on what deal you get for that R5 engine (price, mileage, etc), but you CAN repair your 1.1 with the 1.3 repair kit (pistons, liners, etc). If it's a "big block" you can even throw in the 1.4 kit without hassle. In that case, be sure to check your head volume and calculate your new compression ratio very well. Let me know if you need procedures and formulas.
A 32 Carby would help with the bigger displacement.
 
Hello Rudi,

Sorry to hear of your problems. Basically, you remove the engine and box as per Haynes manual. The box will go straight onto the 1.3. The only thing I don't know is whether the crankshaft ends are different between the manual and auto. That is - the flange where the torque converter bolts on. If it is the same then it's a nut and bolt job. If it isn't, you'll need to source a 1.3 crankshaft (I think). I haven't got my book handy, but if the stroke is the same on the 1.1 then you could swap crankshafts.

Hope you've got access to an engine hoist!

Steve
 
Hi Enrique, Steve.

I'm getting the 1.3 plus ancilliaries for £50 its done 38000, (ish), it hasn't run for a while but it turns over nice and easy, so it seems like a good deal.
Esspecially when compared to having to buy the parts to repair the 1.1!
Yes i've got access to a hoist thanks Steve.
Does anyone know if the crankshaft ends ARE different between the manual and auto?

Thanks one and all.

Rudi.
 
I'd go for it for £50 - sounds extremely cheap.

I'd be surprised if the cranks are different between manual and auto, but the flywheel will be different. I expect a Renault 4 flywheel will fit as the 1300 is the same family of engine as the 1100 (I think).

Worth checking out everything is the same size with a set of vernier callipers before fitting the engine, but Renault were masters at commonising parts, so most likely it'll be a mechano job.
 
Yeah, I thought it was cheap, maybe too cheap, but i've chatted to the seller, who it turns out is a R5 Gordini afficionado. He bought the R5 auto to replace the bodyshell on his Gordini as it's really clean, he bought the automatic cheap and when I explained that I wanted to put it in my R4, he seemed happy enough, he's had the car some time, I believe and my needing the engine will kickstart his Gordini restoration.
So at least my bad luck will be the Gordini's good luck! Plus the R4 get's a bit more bhp, can't be bad.
Just got to find out about the cranks.

Rudi.
 
If you happen to chat to the Gordini bloke would you mention the 5 speed Gordini gearbox I have on ebay (wouldn't fit a Renault 4 dash change without a whole load of imagination). It's sitting at a penny just now and but I'm sure I'd get a fiver at a scrapyard.

I wouldn't worry about cheap. The R5 guys don't know just how much us R4 people would appreciate that extra oomph.
 
Rudi,

I've just managed to study the R5 and R4 manuals and I'm now almost certain that your R4 flywheel will fit onto the 1300cc crankshaft. Now there's only one way to find out!! Regards my previous post, the 1100cc crank would not be suitable for the 1300cc engine.

Let us know how you get on. I would also be interested to know what happened to your original engine - was it the head gasket???

Steve
 
Hi Steve,

I've just taken the cylinder head off and there's oil in No1 cylinder and traces of water on the cylinder bore.
If the head gasket's gone, (as I suspect), does that explain the cacophony of noise that preceeded it. I've checked the water pump which is sound, (in case the impeller had broken a blade), and am at a loss as to my next move.
Think i'll continue to take out the old motor in preparation for the new arrival, then totally strip the 1.1 and update you as and when I find out what all the commotion was. If it's not drastic, i'll rebuild it as a spare.

Rudi
 
One thing not to forget in installing the ex-auto trans motor, is the bronze bush to support the gearbox input shaft in the end of the crankshaft.

Also replace the oil seal on the gearbox input shaft while the motor is out of the car, invariably they start to leak if they are not replaced when the motor has been pulled out.
 
Anyone know where I can get a replacement radiator for the GTL, as it is the main culprit in my car's current condition.
I've tried Liam but he can't help, Renault want £95 and the current cheapest is £58.
Someone must have a serviceable spare rad, for a reasonable price!
My emails edwardsrudi@aol.com
 
Those prices seem about right. Careful with secondhand ones - the original ones are tending to split where the plastic sides crimp onto the aluminium core. I've lost an engine that way before.
 
Decide to go with the £58 one, through Sercko Unipart.
My rad went in exactly the way you described Malcolm, "split where the plastic sides crimp onto the aluminium core". I've taken the engine apart, (top end), and cleaned/checked it, replaced all the gaskets and now await the rad. It's turning over ok, so i'll just wait and see.
The 1.3 turns up next weekend so one way or another I should be back on the road shortly.
Thanks for the advice one and all.

Rudi.
 
The 1.3 turned out to be a 1.4, still from an automatic, now i've gone and mated the manual box to it, put it into the car and like a complete muppet i've not checked to see if there was a brass bush present for the gearbox input shaft, (sorry Simon, I got ahead of myself).
Does anyone know for certain whether or not Renault omitted them from their automatics, as I would have thought that they simply built the engines on a production line, to the same spec and then slotted either an auto or manual gearbox onto it. I wouldn't have thought that Renault would have tooled up another production line for the few automatics they produced in comparison to the manuals. Or am I deluding myself?!?:confused:
If anyone knows for certain please let me know, then I can either take the gearbox out AGAIN, or not as the case may be!:wink:

Rudi.
 
roodini said:
If anyone knows for certain please let me know, then I can either take the gearbox out AGAIN, or not as the case may be!:wink:

Rudi.
Click to expand...


I can guarantee that the engine type 847-05 manual trans crankshaft and 847-06 auto trans crankshaft used in the AUS spec Renault 12 are identical, the only difference being in the bronze bush (P/N 77 00 553 174) being fitted to the man trans crank. AUS never got the R5 in any phase, but I doubt if there would be a difference between the 1.4 motors.
 
hello, I'm about to replace a 1.1 by a 1.3 with automatic gearbox, and a friend just told me that the cam shaft of the 1.3 doesn't fit with a manual gearbox?
Is it true? Did someone have this problem?

thank you, and sorry for my English....
 
I've just replaced my 1.1 with a 1.4 automatic engine which is mated to the R4GTL gearbox, the problem I had was that the camshaft pulley came into contact with the gearbox due to the length of the auto camshaft.
What I did was to reduce the length of the flange at the back of the pulley/wheel so that it was sat further back on the camshaft and made up a deep washer to hold the pulley in place from in front, then I ground back 2/3mm from the area of contact on the gearbox. It's then a small matter of lining up the pulley on the dynamo and the water pump, (which I changed), and your ready to go. Don't forget to pull out the metal bush that's sat in the block around the camshaft and replace it with a 42x30x8 camshaft oil seal.

Best of luck Rudi.
 
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