Scary engine - Advice please!

[Chris Litchfield]

Hello again

Now that I have introduced you to Mildred, I need some advice on the scary part of the car - the engine.

She hasn't run for at least 10 years and I don't know what state the engine was in when she came off the road. The owner of the last couple of years poured diesel into the spark plug ports (presumably to help free everything up.) The oil smells horrible (of fuel) and peering through the oil filer, it looks horrid, dry and sludgy in there :eek:

My friends and I would like to see if this engine will run, but we are concerned. Having stood for so long and with the oil in such a horrid state, we were wondering if we should flush something through to try and clean out the gunk? Is this wise?

Also, the oil filter is absent. There is a strange cap in place of it (see picture.) I have never seen anything like this before. I know early 4's didn't have an oil filter, but surely this one should? I don't know what this is... Can anyone shed any light on this?

Any suggestions/advice would be very welcome!

Thanks

Chris

 

[Cornish4]

Hi Chris. Presumably the engine turns over. The first thing I would do is drain the sump and refill with nice new oil. Then remove the spark plugs and disconnect the fuel line and let that run into a suitable receptacle just in case there is any fuel in the tank. Then i would just bite the bullet and see if it turns over on the starter, just a short burst will do. I'm not sure about this filter blank, I guess loads of folks out there in 4L land will be able to advise you, but I suppose it must have run with this in place. If you are feeling brave reconnect everything up and see if it will start. Perhaps drain the oil after a while and refill with new. Very good luck, Brian.

 

[Chris Litchfield]

Thanks for the advice Brian. I will let you know how we get on... Cheers. Chris

 

[Cornish4]

I should have also said, put some new fuel in the tank. Brian.

 

[alewis]

Filter blank is normal - it just means the original owner saved money by not getting an oil filter (I advise more frequent changes -although the little 845 takes very little)

 

[Snoopy1974]

Hi Chris,

I bought a 77 TL which didn't run from over 15 years, I also wanted to see if the engine was ok before starting anything on the car. Mine is a R1126 and it also don't have oil filter, but this strange cap.

To start the engine, I bought 4 new spark plugs and plug leads, changed old oil and connect the fuel pump to a little fuel tin. After about 5 minutes, the engine started and worked very well, even without choke

When I was sure the engine was ok, I dismantled the fuel tank and carefully drain the old fuel, clean the gauge and the little filter in the tank. I also changed the fuel hose for a new one.

Good luck

 

[benchseat]

It should be possible to get an oil filter adaptor, which is a threaded pipe which you screw into the socket where the filter blank is mounted and then you can put an ordinary oil filter on the front. In fact, if you find a later 845cc scrap engine you can simply unscrew this pipe (careful not to damage the threads) for use in your own vehicle.

I did this for my 1972 R4 which has an oval plate number close to yours (1211348). The pipe is a bona-fide R4 spare whose part number was (in 1992) 77 00 532 934. For the type 800 engine it should be 19mm thread diameter throughout (later ones have 19 on one end and 20 on the other)

 

[Cornish4]

There you are Chris, I know you would get the info you needed. Good idea of Alexandre to have a separate fuel supply and then give the tank a good checkover. Isn't this a great forum.

 

[malcolm]

Welcome back Chris!

Only thing I would add is if the engine has suffered badly from lack of oil changes and then been left sitting it might well need a rebuild. The R5 of mine had completely gummed up piston rings.

Risk of starting it is it's possible to make any damage worse, though if the engine turns I'd probably take the risk myself.

Changing the oil, removing the plugs, then turning the engine over on the starter or crank handle for some time will hopefully get fresh oil around the bearings.

Then go around cleaning points, checking spark etc and new fuel from a suitable container (I use an old radiator expansion bottle) to feed the carb.

If you get it going keep an eye on the cooling and make sure the radiator heats up - thermostats can seize shut.

Last one I started up was an old Renault 5 that had been sitting outside for 10 years. That needed petrol dropping into the carburettor to start it as the valves had stuck open and there was little compression. It doesn't run well - needs a rebuild

 

[Chris Litchfield]

Hello all

Thanks for all of the advice! This is a fantastic forum.

The engine turns, but I couldn't get her started. No fuel being drawn from my little bottle, so looks like the pump has given up.

Onwards and upwards!

Cheers

Chris

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

If you connect the bottle directly to the carburettor and hold it high above the carb, the fuel should feed by gravity alone if the carb is working. I think!

 

[Cornish4]

Yes that will work, and it might be an idea to take the top off the carb and clean out the float-chamber, it's bound to be full of crud. At the same time check that the needle-valve that meters the fuel flow is not stuck. Assuming you have an ignition spark Chris, the engine should start.

 

[politeperson]

Make sure you are trying to draw fuel from the correct pipe

(one goes into the pump and one comes out of the pump!)

 

[Chris Litchfield]

New fuel pump fitted today. Got her started and she runs very nicely Thanks for all of the advice, which I followed!

I wrestled with the fuel tank and got that off this evening. The fuel was very nasty and there is lots of black sediment in the tank. I think it is going to take quite a few attempts to get it all out

 

[alewis]

An old trick was to put some gravel in the tank and shake it to loosen rust and stuff - not sure what others think of this.!

 

[barnfind]

You can get a kit from either Frosts or Rustbuster which comprises a caustic substance that you add to hot water and flush your tank out with and this also recommends (in the case of the Rustbuster version) putting a handful of clean gravel in and agitating it by shaking and rolling the tank to help scour deposits.
At the end of this process you flush out gravel and mixture with clean water and after it has dried, pour in a sealant that should stop the rust from continuing and also should prevent damage by additives.
It is surprising how much crud comes out.
Check your fuel outlet before you thropw the pump away. Mine was solid with sediment Its probably worth adding an inline filter as well, if your pickup in the tank has a blocked filter that you can't redeem.

 

[Chris Litchfield]

Thanks Barnfind - I will get a Rustbuster kit for this... Did you remove the sender unit before doing it?

 

[pepper]

I've removed the sendors and taped all the holes up before using the rustbusters cleaner with a bit of sharp gravel in the tank to shift things around a lot!

I've had good results using their sealer paint too, it worked brilliantly on the Morris Oxford MO tank that I had to repair!

 

[barnfind]

Thanks Barnfind - I will get a Rustbuster kit for this... Did you remove the sender unit before doing it?

Yes, you need to remove the sender, tape the openings over with duck tape or something similar so that you don't splash the caustic solution onto yourself when you slosh it around.