Some questions on the paintjob

[Rutger-peer]

Hi everyone,

I introduced myself just yesterday in the introduction-section, have been following many threads on this forum as well as Malcolm's guides and restorations.

I am going to restore my 1984 Renault 4 GTL from the 16th of June on and hope to finish it at least before half August (I have a long holiday so I can work on the car almost constantly) so I'm trying to get to know as much as I can before the actual work will begin so that I can avoid as much surprises as possible.

One of the things I am not really sure about yet is the paintjob. I am now trying to get the picture of the whole paintjob right in my head. I have been looking at how Malcolm (all of his projects on this site) and a few others did it but still have to decide how I will do it myself and I wondered if some of you guys could help me out or could give me some advice.

Here's the plan:

I plan to first remove all the paint till the whole car (both chassis and body) is bare metal and do the welding. Next I would paint the chassis myself since I will have a compressor at my disposal at the restoration site. As for the body, I'd like do all the preparations (applying primer etc.) for the final coating myself and have the final coating done at a professional paint shop, since I think I can never get that perfect finish myself.

That's the initial plan. What do you guys think of it?

Also I'd like to know what paints and primers to use (self-etching can't be used on sanded surfaces I read). Should I use the same primer for both the chassis and the body? And should I also use the stone-chip-primer on the chassis (what are your personal experiences with that since you used that Malcolm)?

Actually, I read a lot about it but there are a lot of different ways of doing the paintjob and I just don't know which way to go, so if anyone could help me out a bit, I'd appreciate that! Also, if anyone can tell me about the sequence of the whole process (applying primer, sanding, applying another layer etc.) that'd be very useful!

Sorry for posting such a lengthy message, I can never seem to keep it short

Regards,

Rutger.

PS: Would spraying tectyl on the downside of the chassis after it is painted substitute for not using stonechip primer?

 

[malcolm]

For painting have a read a good read through this tutorial: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/spray-painting.htm

Etch primer is good onto bare metal. The epoxy primers are said to be very good on bare metal too. If you were painting onto existing paint then ordinary filler primers would be OK.

I like the anti-stone chip primer. It should be overpainted in colour. The advantage is it's easy to make repairs in the future. Ermintrude needs some repairs but has been painted in the black tar-like underseal which can't be overpainted. Makes the work more time consuming and messy.

 

[Rutger-peer]

Hi Malcolm, thanks for the reply!

The mig-welding website has already been a huge helping out for me but I felt I still had to figure out the exact sequence and way to do it and make sure i got everything right.

But now I started reading again (as I did before) and the website almost says it all. It's really great that you put on so much knowledge. One big compliment for you haha!

I'm starting to wonder why I posted this thread at all since the site is really very clear, well anyway... maybe the only thing is that I like to have it verified that I understood everything well...

So in short:

You painted the underneath of the chassis with anti-stonechip primer, and the upside with filler primer (is that the same as you used on the body, the so called "high build primer"?) to make that smooth and then applied the black colour coat all over. Well, I think I might do that exactly the way you did.

And for the body you first applied body filler to smoothen out the dents, then sprayed on self-etching high build primer first, sanded that smooth, then applied 2 normal high build primers, smoothed out the surface again so that it's perfectly smooth and then the car is ready for the final coat (which I will have done professionally).

Do I have that right?

Would you recommend self-etch primer over normal epoxy-primer?

Okay, thanks for the help!

Rutger.

 

[malcolm]

I think you've got it there.

I did mine in an experimental way. I used a 95% zinc galvanising paint on the chassis and the underside of the body. The problem with that is it doesn't stick - you can scrape it off sanded metal with a fingernail. It needs a shot blasted surface to grab onto and anti-stonechip primer on top for protection.

None of the other primers you apply to bare metal offer any galvanising protection - they are all just intended to stick very well. I have used self etch on bare metal in the past, but I'm told the epoxy primers stick very well and are tougher, so more resistant to chips. Either would be good on bare metal either on the body or chassis.

For the underneath of the body and chassis I would use anti-stonechip primer on top of the bare metal primer. It's very effective - my MGA is still like new underneath.

For the top of the chassis and the outside of the body I would go for high build primer which can be flatted to smooth out any imprefections.

Then colour coat over everything.

Your paint looks good in the photos. If the paint is sound it's not worth going to the trouble of stripping it to bare metal.

For the colour on the body - I'm a big fan of 2 Pack (2K) paint. It can't be sprayed at home (the isocyanates aren't worth the risk even with the proper safety equipment) but it doesn't fade like cellulose, and it resists stone chipping much more. I don't know if paint shops are allowed to use it in the Netherlands, but if they are it's worth having the colour on the body sprayed in that.

 

[Rutger-peer]

Ah, that's very useful information! I will go and see what I can get hold of for what prices and then make a decision. But if the epoxy primers are thougher, then I lean towards those.

Did you mean it's not worth repainting the car as a whole when the paint is fairly ok or it's not worth stripping ALL the paint from the car and I could also only sand off the top layer of the paint and have it repainted on top of that? In that case I'd only have to apply new primer to the welded parts and I would have to apply plaster or high build primer on top of the old basepaint to smoothen out dents. Is that a convenient way of repainting the car?

The paint is okay basically but there's going to be plenty of new bodyparts, like the bonnet, which is severely dented and the bootlid will be replaced since is has become very rusty underneath and I can get another one very cheap. Also the left rear fenderpanel will be replaced. And maybe some other parts (fenders, doors).

There are the occasional rusty parts on the body itself too (although the body is in fairly good condition). There has to be some welding on a doorsill, the bootsill, there's rot in the upper joint between the rear fenderpanel and the body, just like you had on your Gordini project.

So I want to have it repainted for sure.


PS: as far as I know 2K paint is allowed in the Netherlands since my classic motorcycle is also painted with 2K metallic paint, at least I always thought so!

 

[malcolm]

If the paint on the remaining parts is OK and it hasn't been repainted too many times then it might not be worth stripping it back to bare metal. A sand is good enough for new paint, and that can save any original sealant that still works.

 

[Rutger-peer]

Hmmm, well, that's something I will have to think about still. Besides that I don't want to risk rusk beneath a base layer that I haven't noticed but I think that's not going to be a big problem.

Thanks for your help!

 

[DavidN]

I used 2K Epoxy Primer on the body of my restoration project.
That stuff sticks like hell on bare metal, old layers of paint, body filler, plastic...
(I wish I had used it on the chassis as well, but that's another story...)
The 2K Epoxy Primer is resistant to any kind of thinners after it has dried, and sanding it is a dream!
You can build up pretty thick layers too, if needed and it dries in just a few hours.

David

 

[Charliemouse]

All true - and I'll be 2k epoxy primering the Quatrelle this week (masked it up tonight). One thing though: if you put it on thick, and or have finished in 120 like I have for speed - best leave it a week or more if possible before paint. That way it will have sunk all it is going to and you can decide if you will be happy to paint on that surface. I have seen lovely jobs after a car has been in the bod shop 2/3 days. 2 weeks later they look like a relief map of the himalayas...

Charliemouse

I used 2K Epoxy Primer on the body of my restoration project.
That stuff sticks like hell on bare metal, old layers of paint, body filler, plastic...
(I wish I had used it on the chassis as well, but that's another story...)
The 2K Epoxy Primer is resistant to any kind of thinners after it has dried, and sanding it is a dream!
You can build up pretty thick layers too, if needed and it dries in just a few hours.

David

 

[Rutger-peer]

Hey David!

Thanks for the tip! I followed your project aswell and got much inspiration out of it!

And Charliemouse, also thanks for telling me that, definitely something to keep in mind!