Suspension arm ball joints

[daviddb]

Soooo, I'm about to tackle replacement of the upper and lower ball joints as the rubber covers are shot. There appears to be little wear so if I can source suitable covers I'll skip the drilling out of the rivets rites of passage malarky and just change the rubbers. If not I see Franzose have the ball joints but there are several types on offer with little advice on which is which which is a slight arghhh!

Car is a 1977 R1126 TL of 845cc lhd - drum brakes.

The upper ones look like a doddle - indeed I've split one apart already - plenty of access which ever route I choose but having read Haynes I've had a major attack of the self doubts and am ( once again) seeking some advice. As a mechanic I never really got beyond a number two Meccano set but sort of feel this is something I ought to, want to, be able to do.


Haynes speaks of a drive shaft retaining tool. I freely admit I don't understand the mechanics of how the drive shaft joins to the gear box, there are roll pins to drive out and then wires to insert and the tool to attach to stop something auto-dismantling but first up do I even need to remove the drive shaft? Is it just possible to displace it upwards or inwards to give myself enough room to get at the lower ball joint. Or have I completely misunderstood the mechanics how of the hub-carrier/shaft/ball joint move in relation to each other.


I'm thinking that to stop the drive shaft moving laterally in relation to the gear box it should be sufficient just to run a band of gaffer tape around the shaft, do up a jubilee clip f-tight and run a taught wire between that and something immoveable in the same alignment within the engine bay.


Second question is should I only undo one ball joint at a time, that is fix the top one & refasten it before moving on to the lower one. I'm worried that the when the lower one

is undone the suspension arm will spring up with force under the influence of the torsion bar. Does it help to remove the damper so that there will be a greater range of movement to get at stuff?

Presumably if the drive shaft has to come out then the drum brakes have to come off first? I feel my comfort zone to be a rapidly vanishing spot in the distance.

Or given my phobia about drive shaft removal ( and in gloomy moments associated oil seal displacement) can one just tackle this by 'popping off' the drum brake , and then the hub carrier and then all is accessible. I have access to a modest three legged puller and a ball joint splitter.

Very happy to receive any advice from any direction on this - I really have no idea but you probably guessed that already!

many thanks

David

 

[André4Renaults]

The H.B.O.L. (A.K.A. The Haynes Book Of Lies) is not quite as clear on this section of the Renault 4 as it should be... The trick is to get the driveshaft away from the hub, which can be done without most of the malarky described in the book.

With the car on the road, loosen the hub nut a bit (that's the big nut in the middle of the wheel.) Jack up the car, remove the wheel & then split the bottom ball joint. You should be able to continue without undoing the steering tie bar, but if you do it's not the end, but remember to re-check the tracking one it's all back together. You now have to push the drive shaft through the hub (i.e. towards the engine) and with the bottom ball joint free there's JUST enough clearance to do this with the steering on full lock and by using a pusher to ease the driveshaft through the hub. Remember that in this position the driveshaft all be at its most extended, relative to the gearbox and so can go back in quite a long way. Removing the brakes might stop the flexible hose being stretched or damaged & give further movement of the hub (bleed them later if dismantled in any way.) The pressure you're exerting on the shaft tends to prevent it from becoming detached from the gearbox anyway and the universal joints in the shafts allow for a huge amount of movement, as the car's suspension is so soft, which means that you'll have a little more slack to play with when pushing the shaft out of the hub. Once the driveshaft's out of the hubs long as it's not pulled violently away from the gearbox it should just sit in the joint, but best to support it out of the way.

Sorry this is SOOO long, but I hope it helps! I've an industrial strength ball joint splitter & 3 way puller if needed.

 

[daviddb]

Thanks for this Andrew; long is good!!

Just one point to clarify if you could , do I need any sort of tool to drive the shaft through the hub or is it just a matter of belting it gently with a not too soft not too hard drift? And it just slips back in (Matron!) on reassembly? Thanks for the tool offers but at this stage the ball joints have popped open easily enough with my lightweight domestic version of a splitter. Anyway all agog now to get started again on the morrow.

Thanks for this, much appreciated.

David B.

 

[André4Renaults]

Renault do have a special tool to push out the drive shaft from the hub (it's illustrated in the Haynes book) but you'll be hard pressed to obtain one these days! Alternatively you could use your 3 legged puller in reverse (if you see what I mean!) to push the shaft through the hub. Failing that, gently "persuading" it using a drift, a hammer & a piece of wood should do it. The important thing is not to damage the thread at the end of the drive shaft, or you'll be in all sorts of trouble.... Once it's out it should slip back in (Kenneth Williams voice [ON]) but I would coat it liberally in Copperslip (Kenneth Williams voice [OFF]) before attempting re-assembly.

By the way, I'm in Barnet & see you're in E18; not too far away if you need a hand...

 

[daviddb]

Excellent! Sounds like I'm in for a voyage of adventure....

Thanks again for your advice, much appreciated.

David

 

[daviddb]

So the update today is so far so good. Fannied about all morning making up a metal triangle to bolt onto the brake drum wheel studs as my puller a) lacked the spread to straddle the entire drum, and b) I didn't want to exert too much force on the pressed steel back plate of the brake assembly. In the event, one the drive shaft had been secured in place laterally with a Special Tool ( whoo-hoo) it just need a couple of turns of the screw to break the stiction and the rest was just a hand-powered wiggle job. I had already split both the upper and lower suspension arm ball joints.

Setting aside the hub carrier it was obvious that although the upper ball joint just needed a new dust cover the lower one was in fact shot. Held in place by two rivets and one stud/nut combo grinding the tops off and then drilling out was a doddle with so much space liberated. Mr Haynes seems to have erred on the pessimistic side with his warning "Be patient and very careful. It is not a 'rush' job" when you consider how cavalier he can be on other brain surgery-esque procedures. As I say, provided I can source the right sized dust cover I'll leave the top one be for now. Just a matter of waiting for those nice folk at Franzose to deliver the right-ish parts.

More as it happens, meantimes here is a snap of my drive shaft retaining tool. I'm ashamed to admit I couldn't lay my hands on a genuine Jubilee clip.



yrs ever

David B

 

[harbourseal]

Hi David you could also check out Malcoms explanation http://www.renault4.co.uk/tech-balljoint.htm

Turns out you are sorted.
To be frank I never used a retaining tool. Just left the drive shaft as it was. Had no trouble with gearbox oil spillage.
But you do have a clever solution to the problem. I'll keep it in mind.

 

[André4Renaults]

Glad it all worked out. The thing with the grinder is to let the tool do its job (Kenneth Williams strikes again) and don't use too much force. The grinder then cuts through gently and not too far!

Your retaining tool looks better than the Renault original! By the way, Autoshite (www.autoshite.com) always refer to Haynes books as Haynes Book Of Lies, for the reasons you've alluded to.....

 

[daviddb]

Just a brief update to say the job is all done and dusted with no real agonies involved. In fact the most nadgery part was probably getting the new nylock nuts tightened up as they were so stiff that the ball joint shafts just swiveled round and round rather than let the nut tighten up. Needed a bit of a wee bodgette with G-clamps and stuff to clamp the ball joints up tight when nutting-up.

Final drama was turning up at the testing station to find that the beast wouldn't switch off on the ignition key which was a bit of an arghh!!! Turned out that there was a short at the alternator between the abraded/rotten insulation of the black wire that goes to the spade connection on what I take to be the brush box and the B+ terminal. So that's a hint to check yours...when I've a mo I'll take a snap and do a separate post. Electrickery is not my forté by a country mile so quite why this should cause the car to in effect be hot-wired is beyond me.

Anyhoosup I have a 'pass' from the authorities - many thanks to you all for your encouragement and guidance.