water getting into car

[sshermand]

I have come across ,every now and then , a pool of water(I am assuming its rain) sitting on the front rubber mats.
So, my question is what would be the best way of finding the leak , and is this a common problem with a GTL ?
By the way, I was told that the leak could be coming in from the engine bay...is that possible ?
As always, any advice much appreciated.

 

[roodini]

As with anything there's going to be a different reason for your leak but with mine it turned out to be periished dumdum putty!
After weeks of searching I found that what I had assumed to be drainage holes at each end of the front wings, on top near the window, were in fact were the putty had simply rotted and each time it rained the water somehow managed to get into the car.
Plugged the holes when I replaced the wings (thanks Liam, sorry to hear you've sold), never had any water problems since, well except for the bleeding issues, but that's another story.

 

[malcolm]

A very common reason for leaks at the front is the windscreen seal. Easiest way to check is to wait for a dry day and inject windscreen sealant under the outer lip of the seal where it seals to the body.

 

[sshermand]

Water getting in..and a question about my R4's lean

Many thanks for the advice..apologies for my late response.
Anyway ,I have started to seal the windscreen as you suggested, but also I have found a couple of openings on both sides of the wings (see pic) , and I am wondering If I should block these with silicone to stop the water cascading into wing...(bad idea?)

Also my 1986 GTL has a lean, .....it seems much higher on the passenger front side -see pic- than the driver's frontside. Could changing the shocks,or tinkering with the leftside suspension bring down the passenger's side ?

 

[roodini]

The points you describe on the wings are precisely the points at where the putty had perished on my R4GTL and from whence water was gaining access into the drivers side footwell, the drivers side because as with your R4 mine leans to the drivers side too, (known as the R4 stance apparently, they tend to settle on the drivers side, doesn't affect the handling as far as i'm aware!), I put fresh dum-dum putty in and hey presto no more paddling pool.
Regarding the 'stance', i'm a great believer in if it ain't broke don't fix it, plus i've replaced the shocks all round and the 'stance' remains!
If you do find a way of curing it without a whole ball of trouble, would you be so kind as to let me know how you accomplished it, as it would be nice to see the car level at the front one day.

Rudi.

 

[sshermand]

Aha....thanks...now I know where to put the silicone. Wasn't sure If I was going to block up some drainage system.Anyway, I will indeed take your trusted advice and seal those openings- and hopefully my footwell won't be able to accommodate a goldfish anymore !

Hmmm..as for the "stance" , I suppose I will have to tolerate it, but I will investigate it with a couple of old-hand mechanics that I know....might be flogging a dead horse but let's see.
Thanks again for the useful tips,as always, which come from this excellent and helpful R4 forum.

 

[malcolm]

The holes in the top of the wings are to drain water from the rear of the bonnet and roof gutters into the wheelarches. Blocking them would cause puddles.

Many Renault 4s lean to one side. Normally repairing the rust around the rear suspension mountings using a jig cures the lean. You can find out whether the lean is caused by the front or rear suspension by putting a piece of wood across the car at the front and jacking the wood in the middle, preferably with angle iron inverted on top of the jack to give a point load in the wood. If the car leans after bouncing the suspension it's the rear suspension that is causing the lean. Jack from the rear of the car too to check the front suspension.

 

[roodini]

Malcolm, where would these magical puddles appear, as in the seven months since i've blocked of the holes at the top of the wings for the life of me I can't find these puddles, should I wait untill there's a spring shower and follow the rainbow?
As for the 'stance', mine quite distinctly squats on it's drivers side front, the rear being perfectly even and measuring equally from the centre of each rear wheel to the top centre of the relevant wheel arch. The rear suspension mounts are in and I quote a mechanic friend "bl**dy good nick!", so is there a simple way of returning the car to it's just left the factory condition, and no that doesn't include pulling out the putty from the wings!

 

[malcolm]

I can only offer my experience. I've had three leaning cars, all of which were cured by rear suspension mount welding. I an unable to diagnose whether this is the cause of other people's leaning Renaults without further information.

Perhaps your water is draining into the engine bay?

 

[angel]

These holes are actually drain holes for all the water that collects from the roof via the gutters! (it would otherwise fill the gutter between the bonnet seal and windscreen). They should not be blocked,but since this area is a major "meeting point" (body,wing,inner wing,triangle panel!!), it is number one area to develop a leak. Even worse if the R4 has been carelessly repaired there using body filler (after some time it cracks,trapping moisture...the rest is history). Roodini, I think you sealed some crack on the old sealing material "accidentally" when sealing these holes,that's why the leak stopped. But the "correct" repair can be far more troublesome as you should remove the front wings,then reseal their rear joint etc... anyway,it seems that making a R4 watertight is the hardest task...
It seems that your R4 needs its ride height reset. In my opinion its due to torsion bar sagging. It is not a good idea to use the wing as a measuring point. For years I have used the factory measuring method (chassis to ground minus wheel center to ground) and it always gives me excellent results. Renault advice the use of some special "scales" to ensure equal suspension force on each wheel,but I think it is unnecessary even when starting with all torsion bars out of the car. To overcome driver's side sagging a famous trick over here was to set both wheels of this side 10mm higher (actually permitted by the factory).

 

[sshermand]

I am a little confused what I should now ! - So basically I shouldn't block up those holes as Rodini says...
Anyway, I have sprayed the door sills, window sills with a garden hose at full pressure, and have noticed no water getting in.Alas then, I tend to think the water is somehow trickling back in from the front of the car.
But I do know the driver's right wing was changed by the previous owner, and ,as suggested ,I am wondering If indeed it wasn't sealed properly (If that is the case how would I go about sealing it?)
As for the R4 lean, the underneath of my car is luckily rust free(never been welded) so I don't envisage doing any work on rear suspension mountings, which you suggest is a cure for the lean. However, I did speak to a Renault specialist mechanic who tells me that by simply 'adjusting the torsion bar and a spline within it' will cure the lean (apparently at a cost of a hour or two labour)
I will let you what happens If I get it done.

 

[roodini]

This will be my last post for some months depending how the chemo and bone marrow transplant go.
Can someone explain how water gets from the roof gutters into the gutter below the windscreen IF THEY ARE NOT CONNECTED!!!???
The roof gutters come down the front pillars on my GTL and then stop short of the A panels, i've just been washing the car and watching the water run in rivulets down the gutter and straight down the A panels, and between the door gap, straight onto the ground.
I then proceeded to pop the bonnet and the water that had run into the window channel was merrily running down the inner wing and harmlessly onto the ground.
Not into my footwell were it would lay and eventually rot through my floor.
I realise it's not a Renault perfect remedy but it works and I for one am perfectly happy with it.
Goodbye untill remission Rudi.

 

[malcolm]

Looked at a car and you do have a point about the gutters - they don't drain to the rear of the bonnet at all. Just the water from the screen and perhaps the bonnet when you are on the move.

That gap into the rear of the wings is a drain hole, though if there were a leak into the cabin from that area then sealing it up might well be a good solution, so long as some other route is available for drainage from that channel at the back of the engine bay. (might need to bend the flange over a bit? don't know - haven't looked) That'll drain puddles into the engine bay. If worried test with a hose, and if not worried that's a good state of mind to keep.

For the torsion bars if you've checked for rust then adjustment sounds like a plan. Angel's idea of adjusting both the front and the rear sounds like a good one. Reason for that is to maintain the weight balance on each wheel. I once had a good handling car that leaned and decided to adjust a front torsion bar to correct the lean. The problem was at the rear, and by increasing the front height I increased the load on that front wheel, and the car steered to one side after that. Curing the problem by adjusting both front and rear torsion bars would prevent the leaning, or do the measurements on the last page to work out which end needs adjusting.
The leaning tower of Piza is similarly complicated it seems.

Words on forums are crappy for this, but good luck Rudi. See you back when they've finished with the treatment.

 

[Bluebell]

We'll be thinking about you Rudi and looking forward to your return.

 

[castorlex]

water leaks

hello,
My GTL/88 had a chasssis repair but with rainy season I noticed that there is a leak of water in the joint of chassis a and body right in front of pedals. I think that sealant was no well applied (pores or holes exist). Is there any way to fix it without separate body and chassis again?...I tried to put more sealant (silione) in the joint from inside the car with poor results , and the access from exterior is impossible because of the engine...Is there any sort of liquid sealant that can reach the little holes and dry rapidly?..

thanks for advices..

 

[reidalpine]

HI Sshermand!! A word of warning-Do NOT -EVER!! use silicone on a car .it developes vinegar-acid whn it comes in contact with air-This acid will make even a fiberglass-bodied car rust!
Instead go for SIKAFLEX the stuff the pro's use for bonding in new wind-screens.It contains a rubber-compound which will not affect metal-parts at all and is super-efficient!
Can also be used to "re-skin" old tatty door-surround (rubber and/or sponge) dab on and have some soapy-stuff on your fingers so as not to be stuck-then use fingers to smooth it out leaving a water-tight and silky finish-Give it 24hr's to cure before closing door etc.. If you see a car "fixed" with silicone-Walk away Or better yet RUUUUN!! c",)
-ROFFEN the unstoppable R4F4.

 

[reidalpine]

Roodini! Just want to send you ALL my best wishes-like I am sure all the R4-gang will agree to.
Hope to see you back on the forum soon-fitter than ever!!

 

[reidalpine]

Sshermand! just a thought..are you Sure the car is leaking?
Have you taken the Swedish-leak test?
Place car in dry spot on sunny day and if no water comes out of it-it must be water-proof right?? ;-)
I think the drain-holes at rear of wings are best kept open too.Try checking top and sides of plastic-fresh air inlet
plus ALL holes in firewall(for wires,cables,pedals,steering,brake and bolts etc-these are common places for leaks. Those rubber-grommets cables and stuff go through have probably dried out and are cracked by now-If in doubt rip them out and use SIKAFLEX to make a real waterproofed hole. Cut a round hole plus slit in some duct-tape to make it go over that wire etc. little bigger than hole(s) Dab on SIKAFLEX, finger in soap-smooth it out- leave for one hours then lift off tape to make a perfec' round rubber-dub-dub! Also check front-screen surrounds both between glass and rubber And rubber and body."Leak-Fix" or "Seek & Fix"(?) will probably cure it. Make sure rubber-surround around REAR door/hatch is ok as the car leans forward so all water ends up in the foot-wells..
-ROFFEN the unstoppable R4F4