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Water leak - Renault 4GTL

Paul Narramore

Paul Narramore

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Aylesford, Kent
A friend came around to the house yesterday and I lifted the rubber mats to show him a small hole in the floor. Unfortunately I found a fair amount (1/4pt) of rusty, orange coloured water lying in the foot wells. I had previously examined the front windscreen rubber, the bases of the windscreen wipers, the air vent and even the patched up rusted roof aerial position, and they all looked OK. We did have some spells of very heavy rain last week.

So what am I missing? I understand that any rain which enters the air vent escapes downwards into the engine bay. There are no apparent gaps or holes in the windscreen rubber nor the wiper rubbers.

I think the next step is to simple seal the windscreen rubber even if I can't find any holes. Any sealant better than any other?

I might spread newspaper over the floor then pour water from a watering can to locate any leaks.
 
Ah, I have just found Malcolm's post recommending 'ScreenSeal' which I've ordered off eBay. (Why didn't that show up when I searched earlier?)
 
If the outer wings have been replaced, and no sealer has been used on the inside of the bulkhead
You might have a leak there.
Water can also seap in around the door seals.
It doesn't have to be the windscreen.
 
Ah, and thank you. The ingress of water had caused the newly applied red oxide and black Smooth Hammerite to bubble up and soften up so when scraping off the mess I found what may well be the cause. To the left of the clutch pedal (RHD car) is the steel trunking which I presume leads down from the air vent. There was a hole in this big enough to push my thumb in. When it rained heavily last week, rain must have entered through the air vent, ran down the trunking and entered via the hole. I sealed the hole up with aluminium mesh and Isopon P40 and applied at least six coats of Gel Kurust on the still rusty floor. I'll wash this off just before it get's dark then give it a coat of black Smooth Hammerite in the morning once it has dried.

Of course there may well be more than one entry points!
 
Hi Paul there are quite a number of places water can get in unfortunately . The air vent has its own drain. It's a plastic pipe which hangs down on the Engine side behind the steel trunking you mention . It would be a good idea to check that this isn't blocked up by pouring water down the air vent and making sure it comes out of the pipe At the bottom and nowhere else
 
Thanks for the tip, another thing I hadn't heard. So it's on the engine side of the bulkhead? I presumed any water would exit from the bottom of the trunking?

(Later) I've searched high and low, or at least around the air vent and ducting, and can fine no sign of any such plastic tube. Floor repainted and mat replaced - until the next downpour.
 
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Need to jack car up the tube is not visible as it's behind engine timng chain cover maybe the rubber has fallen off or the metal tubing has rusted away and whole lot vanished ☺
 
Here's a photo for you Paul. You can see the drainage pipe hanging down (in the dirty section -which has since been well cleaned)

As Paul suggests, perhaps your pipe has dropped off. It's just a push-on system and it fits to a small metal pipe about 4-5 cm long
IMGP1253.JPG
 
I think I may have solved it. When I found a thumb-sized hole in the front bulkhead, close to my left foot, I filled it with Isopon P40 but a small amount of rusty water still got in. Yesterday I thought I'd try to discover the purpose of a red/white wire poking out of the radio cassette fascia, and there is was. A small amount of rusty and a log horizontal rusty slit of a hole, big enough to post a letter through. I cleaned it up and applied Kurust gel a few times, then sealed the hole with more P40. I then did a 'belt & braces' job of it by making up an angled piece of alloy and using gutter sealant stuck this over the repair. I then replaced the fascia - don't ask me just how many times I lost the screw clips. It's due to rain in the next few days so we'll see if my repair has worked. Now to go and investigate that drain tube.

And the red/white wire? Who knows. It was in tandem with a red/black white which was the live feed for the radio cassette, and I really didn't feel like removing the dashboard to see what was at the other end. Mind you as I have to lubricate the windscreen wiper mechanism, I shall have to do this anyway.

I find the French (or Continental) wiring in the back of Haynes, very puzzling to follow. I bought online a wiring diagram for my Honda GL1000 motorbike which is in colour and far, far easier to understand. I shall investigate.

Incidentally, you may recall my mention of the steering wheel being slightly 'off centre' well I managed to get the steering wheel off using a very long tommy bar (actually a torque wrench, tut tut) and moved the wheel around once spline only. It's now off centre the other side. Never mind, I will get the tracking done one day.

(Later) Right I found that stub and in spite of severe abrasions to my forearm ( I approached the thing from the nearside of the engine bay) found it was a bit bunged up. I could just get a twist drill bit up there and by carefully turning it by hand, got a fair amount of mud out. Once the drill was about 75mm up the stub, I met resistance. More mud or is there something I shouldn't be poking at? Took the plastic vent off but impossible to see what's what from there (I shall come back as a mouse). So Jonathan, if you don't have the engine back in, can you please tell me what diameter the stub is (15mm?) and how long the tube should be. Judging by the rust stains, water has been leaking down the front of the bulkhead onto a horizontal ledge where I can see my P40 repairs poking through. Jubilee clip when I fit a length of poly tube.
 
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Paul Narramore said:
I think I may have solved it. When I found a thumb-sized hole in the front bulkhead, close to my left foot, I filled it with Isopon P40 but a small amount of rusty water still got in. Yesterday I thought I'd try to discover the purpose of a red/white wire poking out of the radio cassette fascia, and there is was. A small amount of rusty and a log horizontal rusty slit of a hole, big enough to post a letter through. I cleaned it up and applied Kurust gel a few times, then sealed the hole with more P40. I then did a 'belt & braces' job of it by making up an angled piece of alloy and using gutter sealant stuck this over the repair. I then replaced the fascia - don't ask me just how many times I lost the screw clips. It's due to rain in the next few days so we'll see if my repair has worked. Now to go and investigate that drain tube.

And the red/white wire? Who knows. It was in tandem with a red/black white which was the live feed for the radio cassette, and I really didn't feel like removing the dashboard to see what was at the other end. Mind you as I have to lubricate the windscreen wiper mechanism, I shall have to do this anyway.

I find the French (or Continental) wiring in the back of Haynes, very puzzling to follow. I bought online a wiring diagram for my Honda GL1000 motorbike which is in colour and far, far easier to understand. I shall investigate.

Incidentally, you may recall my mention of the steering wheel being slightly 'off centre' well I managed to get the steering wheel off using a very long tommy bar (actually a torque wrench, tut tut) and moved the wheel around once spline only. It's now off centre the other side. Never mind, I will get the tracking done one day.

(Later) Right I found that stub and in spite of severe abrasions to my forearm ( I approached the thing from the nearside of the engine bay) found it was a bit bunged up. I could just get a twist drill bit up there and by carefully turning it by hand, got a fair amount of mud out. Once the drill was about 75mm up the stub, I met resistance. More mud or is there something I shouldn't be poking at? Took the plastic vent off but impossible to see what's what from there (I shall come back as a mouse). So Jonathan, if you don't have the engine back in, can you please tell me what diameter the stub is (15mm?) and how long the tube should be. Judging by the rust stains, water has been leaking down the front of the bulkhead onto a horizontal ledge where I can see my P40 repairs poking through. Jubilee clip when I fit a length of poly tube.
Click to expand...

Hello Paul yes I can tell you what youre poking... its a peice of metal gauze tack welded over the top end of the hole. Your poker wont penetrate beyond it.
I have a spare pipe (old one) I can post if you like for cost of post. Its light so maybe won't be much.

Incidentally you would benefit from a reel of Butyl tape (go see a windscreen fitter) many if not all those joints in that area would benefit from it. It can be rolled up and made into 'grommet's' very effectively. The advantage is its totally flexible. Its lovely stuff really adadptable and nice to use. Does a good job for little cost.
 
Jonathan, Thanks for the offer but if it's just a simple length of polythene tube, I can get a length locally. In fact I have some heater hose which may do the job. Butyl tape though, is that self adhesive?
 
Yes it's just like a strip of liqurice (can't spell it ...the stuff you eat as kids)
 
It was raining this morning so I popped out to see if my fix had worked. Oh dear, it probably did work as there was no sign of rusty water under the rubber mat, but there is a tiny puddle on the driver's side in the middle of the rubber mat. I careful looked and felt around the bulkhead and under the dashboard failed to find were it's coming in. Windscreen sealant at the ready.
 
The bulkhead has a channel just underneath the windscreen. Where it meets the wing there should be a little hole to let the water down into the wheel arch. It's quite possible you have some corrosion along the you have some corrosion along the seam line between the bulkhead and the quarter panel. It's a classic sport for the rain to coming along that junction and end up on the mat
 
I know the small holes you mean, Jonathan, so I will have a poke around with the aid of a torch. I might see something looking up under the wheel arch.
 
Later, heavy showers this morning so I went out and can at last see roughly where the drips are coming from. On the bulkhead to the right of the steering column, is a pop riveted metal tab with serial numbers on, and to the left of the fuse box. Rainwater is running down the bulkhead onto this tab then onto the rubber mat beneath. So removal of dashboard (I guess) to see where the water is entering. Examination of the window seals doesn't show up anything untoward.
 
Hello Paul, are you saying that water from your windscreen is running down into the channel below the windscreen and causing it to fill up and overflow into the engine compartment where the metal tag is?
If that is the case, then the holes on the sides that Johnathan was talking about are probably blocked with debris.
The lip of the below window channel should also have a strip of rubber along its length.
I have a photo of it somewhere
 
No, I'm not saying that. The channel doesn't fill up. However this morning I went out there and using a small length of flexible wire, I did poke both sides through and a small amount of debris fell out. I'll now wait for the next rainy day to see if that made any difference.
 
Something that you might want to check on....... I had a slight leak in the same position that you're describing. It turned out to be brake fluid!!

The brake pedal is attached to the master cylinder piston rod. The seals in the master cylinder were worn, so every time I pressed the brake pedal a small amount of brake fluid would squirt through and run down the inside of the bulkhead and onto and under the rubber mat.

It might be a common problem because most R4's I've seen have perforated floor pans on the drivers side.
 
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