1977 R4 TL restoration made in France

[Snoopy1974]

Hi, and thanks for the picture of your dog, so cute

orsome I need an email or post adress to send to you the 3 wiring looms I found in the technical R4 brochure...

 

[Snoopy1974]

Message sent few seconds ago...

 

[orsome]

confusing electric wiring schemes

Message sent few seconds ago...

Hi Snoopy;

I gone trough the material sents and yes; it's must be lacking model years 1975-76-77-78, because all details do not match.
I kept wondering the wiring numbering but then i found that from 1979 wiring codes; those end up position numers matching the numbered icons.
But that was all.

Loading relay picture from 71/72-73/74(four connecting points) do not match with mine but the 79 picture does(three connecting poits for cables)


I wonder anyone having a specific wiring diagram for 1977 R1123 only?

 

[Snoopy1974]

Personnaly, these diagrams don't match with mine too, but... I have good news for you and for me too

In another "Revue technique" on Renault 4 TL and GTL, there is a diagram called "wiring loom for model before 1979", I'm almost sure that it's the good one for our cars

I'll scan it tomorrow and I will send it to you...

Let me know if this time this is the good one

 

[orsome]

electric diagrams prior 1979

I'll scan it tomorrow and I will send it to you...

Let me know if this time this is the good one

**Most kind, great

additionally i think i must takeoff starter and open it according to Frog's tips(i hear only "click")-i suppose that sandblasting has caused some dirtyness inside it???:eek:

 

[Snoopy1974]

I also did remove my starter one week ago, because it stopped working... It costed me 68 € to repair it, but I never could repair it by myself, now it is like a new one

Concerning the electric diagramm please be patient... it will be sent as soon as possible.

The right doors and the rear compartiment door have been removed, carefully sanded and painted with an antirust primer:





I bought on Le Bon Coin a black front grille to fit the good one on my car:

And a day when the weather was ok, I was able to put the car outside the garage for the first time for many months


I had problems with the fuel steel pipe which was absolutly rusted at many places, and so dirty in the part inside the fuel tank:


I made a new one in copper to prevent rust damages, the engine works well now, but I have new problems...

It's impossible to bleed the brakes, even after 3 bleedings the pedal still continues to go against the floor and the car absolutly don't stop, it's incredible There is no leak, so is anyone here able to tell me the reason why it doesn't work ??????

 

[orsome]

if a hammer dont fix it-then it's an electric failure!

Concerning the electric diagramm please be patient... it will be sent as soon as possible.
=>Ok, i can see that you had something elso to do, looks fine


It's impossible to bleed the brakes, even after 3 bleedings the pedal still continues to go against the floor and the car absolutly don't stop, it's incredible There is no leak, so is anyone here able to tell me the reason why it doesn't work
=>maybe the system gets air somewhere?

 

[Geoff in the Gully]

It's impossible to bleed the brakes, even after 3 bleedings the pedal still continues to go against the floor and the car absolutly don't stop, it's incredible There is no leak, so is anyone here able to tell me the reason why it doesn't work ??????

If your pedal goes to the floor then it is either pushing the brake fluid out or the seals in the master cylinder have failed and its piston is moving 'through' the fluid without applying much pressure to the brakes, if any. If you have no sign of brake fluid leaking anywhere and the level in the reserve bottle doesn't go down then it's the failed seals in the master cylinder.

 

[Snoopy1974]

I do think it's the master cylinder.... But few minutes ago, a friend of mine suggests me something... "did you bleed the master cylinder ?"...

Ouch, no, no, no, I just come back from my garage, I bleeded the master cylinder (there is a bleed screw on it) and... miracle It works !!!!

I forgot that, I'm so stupid sometimes

 

[alewis]

Thats great news, much better than it being broken

 

[Eoynteenie]

wow.....good work, its looking good

 

[Geoff in the Gully]

Well you learn something new every day. I didn't know you could bleed a master cylinder.

 

[Snoopy1974]

Hi everybody

the car is now ready (mechanicaly) to pass the french CT, it works very well with this lovely sound of the Billancourt engine (I'm used to hear the Cleon one because I always drive GTLs), every mechanical or electrical parts are ok. The only "problem" is that the oil sump has little leak, even the seal between the engine block and the oil sump is new, I really don't understand why, maybe I didn't tight the bolts enough ?...

I would like to finish the body parts and the roof before passing the CT but I also have new problems... let me tell you...

First at all, the weather here is really too cold to make any paint job, the temperature is about -10°C all the day, absolutly impossible to work

And... as you know I protected the roof and all the rusted parts with a product called "Rustol CIP", if you want to know what it is:
http://www.owatrol.com/index.php?langue=fr&page=produits-rustol-cip

To have a nice and smooth surface on the parts before painting, I want to apply a polyester primer (sometimes called filler primer or other names) because the rust made much "craters" in the steel of the body.

But yesterday the seller told me that this kind of product cannot be applied on my Rustol CIP, it maybe a disaster, the Rustol could peel off from the parts :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

So I'm really disappointed and actually I absolutly don't know what can I do to resolve this problem

 

[barnfind]

Use an isolator over the Rustol, if it is not compatible with your chosen paint system. Its an inert paint that you just spray over the offending finish and then re-prime when dry with your preferred system.

 

[orsome]

Concerning the electric diagram

Concerning the electric diagramm please be patient... it will be sent as soon as possible...


Hi Snoopy, ...just waiting for...have been on the road, coming back home but it's still frrreeezzing conditions out, almost -30C every day and now i even can skate in my garage..one water line froze and fill one fifth of garage floor with water, now i have some 1cm ice on the floor

 

[Rutger-peer]

The rustol is 1 component paint, based on terpentine. I guess the primer you want to use is a 2k (2pack) paint. In any way, you should never apply 2k over 1k paint. Best thing is probably to remove the rustol again when the weather is better and then make the metal totally bare (remove all paint) and then apply a 2k epoxy primer. Epoxyprimer is particularly good against rust. Then use a 2k filler primer and the final coat can go over that. Never apply the final coat directly over the epoxy, that will not hold.

 

[Snoopy1974]

The chassis of my GTL have been painted with this Rustol, and then, with a 2k primer PPG (D 8046), from this time I have no problem, the technicals data of the Rustol CIP explains that it can be covered with all types of paint, inclued 2k ones ???....

On a french forum, someone told me that I could use this PPG primer, with several coats -sanding between each one- until I get a perfect surface... I think I'm going to try this method on the rear door to see...

If I really have to remove all the Rustol and make all the job a second time...

 

[Rutger-peer]

Hmmm... well, if it says so on the technical data, it should be alright. I just always had the notion that you can't (or maybe better "shouldn't") put 2k over 1k, but maybe that's something I made up myself . However, 1k paint isn't nearly as hard as 1k paint. 1k paint "dries" when the solvent it is based on evaporates out of the paint and leaves the paint on the surface that you painted. 2k paint uses 2 different ingredients, which then react chemically and create a really hard surface. I think that is why I would never put 2k paint on top of 1k paint: 1k paint is way softer and weaker than 2k and therefore to me it doesn't make sense to put 2k on top of 1k. But yeah, could be that it isn't so much of a problem.

There are lots of different ways to prepare your car for a final layer. I used 2k epoxyprimer on bare metal, the parts where I welded in new pieces of metal and on the parts where I applied filler (putty) to smoothen out dents. Then I applied a layer of 2k filler and on top of that the final colourcoat. The filler I sprayed is basically a thick primer (which can't go on bare metal by the way, so the bare metal first needs to be covered, in my case by the epoxyprimer) which you can sand pretty well to smoothen the surface perfectly. That filler I really needed to stirr a lot, since there was a big residual of derry on the bottom of the paintcan, which shows that it's a thick paint with a lot of solid particles in it. Really nice to work with.

But just look around, ask around at a paintshop. When you ask a lot of people or here on a forum, you get a lot of different advice, which makes it hard for you to decide what you should do. Doesn't mean the advice isn't correct but there are just a lot of ways to do it and every situation might need a different approach. In a paintshop they'll tell you: "you should do it like this and that" and then you can just start with it. Makes it a lot easier. You can also ask them what to do with the coat of Rustol you already applied.

Last thing about the Rustol: 1k paints don't get really hard, which causes them to be very hard to sand with sandpaper (unless it's been drying for years). Your sandpaper will tend to clutter up with paint really fast, especially the 600 - 1000 grid santpaper that you'd wanna use when you're busy with the paintjob of your car. That's another reason why it's not so handy to use onder a final coat (of course you can smoothen it with filler, but it's not really very convenient).

But I'm also a hobbyist, not an expert.

 

[barnfind]

There is always a risk in mixing different paint systems. You may not get an initial reaction, but 2K gloss over 1k primer can lead to crazing longer term. The 2k, as has been pointed out, is harder than the 1k and if subject to extreme heat, for example, a dark coloured car parked in hot sun, the surface layers will expand at a different rate to the underlayers. You may also get trapped solvent in the 1k unless it is very mature (in which case it may also have absorbed moisture if left to weather) which can cause microblistering. It is best not to mix different systems.
If you are spraying over a car without stripping back to bare metal and are uncertain of the original paint finish, or if you have a car with different finishes on different areas, then an isolator such as Barcoat, which is alcohol based, is an effective way of stopping a chemical reaction, since it stops solvents bleeding through. If you are on bare metal, then acid etch is the way to go for a first coat.
If you are thinking of applying 2k yourself, then you need the right gear, it is seriously nasty stuff.

 

[orsome]

"K paints

If you are thinking of applying 2k yourself, then you need the right gear, it is seriously nasty stuff.

Rigth, but the finish will be totally something else than with these new "watercolours", wont leak and you'll get shiny brigth surface as well beautiful colour shades