Rear brake flexible - oops!

[mojobaby]

I received my new flexible tubes a few days ago and decided to remove the old ones over the weekend and put the new ones in. The first side was a bit of a struggle, as they haven't been changed since I bought the car 20 years ago.

The second side was a complete disaster as you can see. The nut wasn't a nut anymore, it had been rounded off, so I tried with a pair of vice grips and that still didn't work as the 2 parts were so rusted together. Eventually it turned, but so did the brake pipe and it snapped off.

So now I have to order some new copper line and a brake flaring tool. Never done this before so any tips before I start??

 

[Q plate]

There's a few different types of flaring tool some make it easy others take a bit of practise. Before you cut the pipe to the correct length practise making a few flared ends with a length of pipe til you're confident. Remember to put the fittings on the pipe before you flare the ends an easy school boy error to make also make sure the fittings actually fit OK before you start. Not much to it really just practise setting the pipe up in the former until you're getting consistent good ends

 

[angel]

Either buy a good quality - and expensive - flaring tool, or try to find a secondhand brake pipe. Cheap flaring tools are a waste of time and money.
Also, it's best to use copper-nickel (Kunifer) brake pipe as opposed to copper.

 

[JdeW]

Yeah, it's typical things can and will fail after a long period. Here we have a meaning for the abbreviation RENAULT as, Roest En Narigheid Achtervolgen U Lange Tijd (Rust and Nastiness Will Haunt You for a Long Time)

A good (expensive) flare tool cost more then buying prefabricated Cunife pipes. Normally they are only sold as a set (Melun, Der Franzose) but here in The Netherlands at R-Quatre you can obtain single pipes

Remleiding op draagarm LA=RA

www.renault4onderdelen.nl

 

[mojobaby]

Thanks for the advice, Q-plate, Angel and Joop. I was going to order just a meter of brake line, the fittings and the tool from Melun but they are out of stock of the brake line.

So now I have to get 25ft/7.6 meters from Amazon. It comes with about 10 connectors as well. So plenty of material to test with. And yes Angel it is a nickle/copper mix. Perhaps the nickle gives it hardness? I presume its easy to bend by hand.

I have no way of telling if a flaring tool is good quality or not. So I didn't take the 17 Euro tool because thats cheap for a reason. i ordered the 25Euro one so lets hope I don't regret it. I only have 2 flares to do and after watching a few Youtube videos I realise that it has to be a double flare.

And Joop......Roest en Narigheid? So true!!

 

[Cyprusnoddycar]

I had the same problem with my R4 on two connections, but luckily we have a shop here that makes any brake pipe you need with a pattern supplied. Make sure the threads on the new unions are correct because they do vary. Maybe you have a shop near you that could make them for you ?

 

[Pascal's pilot]

Hello all,

I agree with all the above advice about practice and remember to put the nut on the pipe etc.
Here is a bit more.

1. Cut the pipe squarely.
Clean the 'frazes/ rough bits' off the outside and inside of the pipe.
The outside is easy.
For the inside, I used and small old file sharped to a point at an angle, put the point inside the pipe and rotate to clean the frazes off.
Blow out the debris.

2. Make yourself a pipe bending aid.
Take a male and female nut plus a short length of 4.75mm bar (silver steel is best)
Weld each nut to the ends of the bar, don't let any weld get on the threads or it is start again time.
So when bending a pipe. Take our new tool and new pipe, screw the tool onto the pipe (male to female or vice a versa)
You will have a much easier time bending the pipe, especially those bends close to the pipe end.

Don't know where you live mojobaby but if you are near Solihull UK I would happily make your pipes for you.

cheers Dave

 

[retrospecparts]

If you just need one pipe, why not just get a local garage to make you one. That way you don't need to buy the tool, a roll of pipe (normally 25m) and a bag of fittings. Remove the pipe first (noting it's routing), accurately measure it with a piece of string (at least twice, to make sure) and ask them to make one to that length. If you're near me, (Worthing, near Brighton), I'll do a pipe for £12 up to a meter long and then £1 per 25cm after than.

 

[JdeW]

I'm sure you'll sort it out Dave. I'm also in favor for doing, creating and building things myself and on the other hand when you go to a garage or shop they always let the novice do the work
Here are some thoughts, in the Europe that I knew we used everything by the DIN and ISO standards, but why are most brakepipes the SAE double flare as the Society of Automotive Engineers which is an American institute?

 

[mojobaby]

Thanks Cyprus, I'm going to give it a shot on my own first, but yes, one of my fears is that there is a thread difference

Thanks for the offer Pascal, I'm a bit far from you, SW France. I've done a fair amount of plumbing work so I have a pipe cutter for a clean cut. I've also bent 16mm copper tubing but with heat. Not applicable in this case. Interesting tool you've made.

Retrospec, if I get a local garage to do it for me, they'll charge me, for sure. And if I do it myself then I'll know for next time. Thanks fro the offer but I'm far from you.

Joop, 2 years ago when I went to a garage to sort out my brake problem, they didn't tighten my wheel nuts properly. Definitely a novice mistake.

Thanks everyone for the help and advice. Parts arrive tomorrow I think, so take out the popcorn and wait for the show.

 

[angel]

Here are some thoughts, in the Europe that I knew we used everything by the DIN and ISO standards, but why are most brakepipes the SAE double flare as the Society of Automotive Engineers which is an American institute?

Brake fittings are the only components on a Renault 4 with an Imperial thread, too.

 

[JdeW]

Brake fittings are the only components on a Renault 4 with an Imperial thread, too.

That's correct and luckely on our R4's the brake pipes and fittings are all SAE.
But on one type of car I've seen mixed standards, the Dutch DAF has an American flange (a SAE single bubble flare), in a German nipple (DIN), with a metric thread (ISO)

 

[retrospecparts]

Brake fittings are the only components on a Renault 4 with an Imperial thread, too.

...along with the seat belt mounting threads, which are 7/16" UNF

 

[mojobaby]

I had no idea what the acronyms SAE, DIN and UNF stand for so I had to google them to understand.

Interesting that "din" also means a loud , unpleasant and prolonged noise. Thats the sound inside my car

 

[mojobaby]

So my copper tubing and the flaring tool arrived yesterday so spent a few hours today practising. A few photos to show how I progressed.

The copper tube has to extend to the same height as the form tool.


Then the form tool is inserted into the tube and the clamp is attached with the cone shape on top of the form tool



Screw the cone down until it bottoms out and remove the form tool and you have this shape. (I lifted the copper tube out for the photo)



Then remove the form tool and just use the cone shape to make the final flare



And this is the result. I'm a bit worried about the clamp marks on the back of the tube. Perhaps I'm clamping down to hard?