Stiff clutch

[nemanja]

This one has been bothering me for a while.
The clutch on my 4 seems to go stiffer as it warms up/gets used more.
It goes to the point when it's annoying and real hard on the foot. It also engages suddenly, or
at least I think so. The problem is that when it's stiff there is no easy way of letting the pedal
go smoothly. Now, this is interesting: When it gets cold or whet outside and the car is not being used overnight or for a day or two, the clutch is feels much lighter in operation!
At least for a few minutes. Then it just gradually becomes harder.
Please comment.

Cheers,

Nemanja
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[malcolm]

Frederick has the answer: http://www.renault4.co.uk/tech-clutch-seize.htm

That clutch operating shaft gets seized up and a bit of WD40 does a world of good. Might take some spraying once a day over a few days to sort it out, but it does sound like it's what's causing your problem.

 

[nemanja]

Thanks Clementine.
I tried it but had no luck. Maybe I'm missing the spot, I don't know. Unfortunatelly, I'll have to visit a mechanic as the thing gets worse and will probably be more expensive to fix in the end. It wouldn't be a problem if didn't fork out 1/3 of my monthly income just a few months ago for the same thing. I was obviously ripped off by a greedy mechanic.
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[Tracey Ruck]

I had similar problem and it was a frayed clutch cable!!

 

[nemanja]

I've got a new cable, it's not that. But thanks anyway.

Cheers,

Nemanja
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[malcolm]

Sounds off that it gets worse when hot. I've found the stiff shaft is worse when the weather is cold.

Sounds like something needs lubricating inside the gearbox. If spraying the shaft where the clutch lever goes in didn't help then possibly a problem with the shaft further in the gearbox or with the release bearing. Might be able to tell which by removing the cable from the gearbox and moving the lever on the gearbox up and down. There should be some free play where the lever feels loose. If it doesn't then a lot of penetrating oil and moving the lever up and down should help.

 

[nemanja]

clutch lever

I'm on this problem for a while, on and off. It was always there. Having driven varios R4s in the past and doing a lot of city driving I just couldn't let it go as I know how light it should be.
Tonight I once again removed the clutch cable and tried spraying some WD40 around the lever. Didn't seem to help. It's still going hard. But I noticed one thing now. It seems that the lever is a bit loose. When I press the pedal the lever is going up as usual but it's also moving to the left towards the wing and gets stuck a bit as it pushes itself onto the outer and inner shaft opening. If I push it towards the engine and then try to disengage the clutch it feels a bit lighter and there's no nasty noise anymore.
Is it possible that this is just a sideeffect of something going wrong in the clutch itself?

Cheers,

Nemanja
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[angel]

The symptoms you describe come normally from a fatigued pressure plate diaphragm. Modern ones tend to lose their elasticity when heated (not necessary overheated, normal clutch slip). Having replaced some clutch kits on various European cars for this reason, it made me think what low-quality materials are used today... I have never had such an experience on a R4, though. The solution would be to replace the clutch set.
When you say "the lever" you mean the clutch pedal/actuating lever on gearbox or gearshift lever? Normally a hardened diaphragm causes all sorts of wear on the clutch actuating mechanism because they are stressed more than designed.

 

[nemanja]

Thanks for the reply. I've decided to remove the gearbox and see what's going on.
Hopefully, the manual I have will be informative enough to help me do it considering my moderate mechanic skills.

Nemanja
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[SWIFT]

any chance it has the wrong clutch in it ??? I had this problem on my 850cc R4 . It had the clutch out of an 1100 in it and because the two engines turn in a different direction it left me with a heavy clutch with a rough take up.

 

[orsome]

clutch problems

I have now the same kind of problems, but nothing to do with cold/warm.
Clutch plate is old one but having plenty of material to wear.Both metallic surfaces have been aligned/turned by proffs.I have a new bearing also.
When i try to put gear 1 in it was not easy untill i screwed more tigth the adjustment nuts.Then i tried to put reverse gear on, no way.
I had to screw more, but when i hit the clutch pedal more and more it only bened to left(i mean metal gave up)-i think so little engine should not need so much foot power to release the clutch.

The release lever and springs etc have been cleaded, the same with the lever on gear box.
Car has not been used for 23years

I doubt the clucth cable, but am little bit suspicios concerning gear box lever because it has been sandblasted and not greased after that?

 

[orsome]

some advise needed

I have now the same kind of problems, but nothing to do with cold/warm.
Clutch plate is old one but having plenty of material to wear.Both metallic surfaces have been aligned/turned by proffs.I have a new bearing also.
When i try to put gear 1 in it was not easy untill i screwed more tigth the adjustment nuts.Then i tried to put reverse gear on, no way.
I had to screw more, but when i hit the clutch pedal more and more it only bened to left(i mean metal gave up)-i think so little engine should not need so much foot power to release the clutch.

The release lever and springs etc have been cleaded, the same with the lever on gear box.
Car has not been used for 23years

I doubt the clucth cable, but am little bit suspicios concerning gear box lever because it has been sandblasted and not greased after that?

clutch cable is OK and working, so no problem with that.
When i pull cluch lever wih a steel bar, it makes it work(release) but when i kick the pedal work lengrh aint enough??

I wonder i the new release bearing i bougth from franzöze aint high enough??(i mean that lewer work length is now too small? )
- i am not very haoppy to take the motor aout for fourth time in a month

 

[mike4gtl]

I have the opposite problem with mine. Cold it's heavy, hot it's easy. I have changed the clucth and checked the thrust and greased the link arm which was free. So all it can be now is the cable.

 

[orsome]

I have the opposite problem with mine. Cold it's heavy, hot it's easy. I have changed the clucth and checked the thrust and greased the link arm which was free. So all it can be now is the cable.

i'll attach a photo to show what i mean(no holes), one poor photo represents 3 screw holes on side of the gear box, those are all on same line.

another photo show the lingage type and it's vertical position as it will fit those holes
- it aint as shown in ingo heitels book, but there is no other way to fix it?
you can also see the orignal release bearing and how out it can be pulled towards clutch, new bearing looks a bit different from Farnzöze, it do not have the rounded outer surface

***???any ideas, any comments?

 

[malcolm]

I had a similar problem with a clutch lever from a 1965 car. See http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2680

These levers can become bent if the clutch has been badly adjusted, and there seems to be variation in release bearing and clutch back plate length. If the clutch lever is reaching the end of it's travel then it's likely a gearbox off job to fix.

 

[orsome]

I had a similar problem with a clutch lever from a 1965 car. See http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2680

These levers can become bent if the clutch has been badly adjusted, and there seems to be variation in release bearing and clutch back plate length. If the clutch lever is reaching the end of it's travel then it's likely a gearbox off job to fix.

Thanks Malcolm,

Matter is very strange to me because only thing being changed is the new release bearing.Otherwise only cleansing was done.
Can i put the springs for the forksystem faulty?
-what does the following exactly mean? "set the release fingers' height incorrectly "??

One matter i thought could be wrong is the clutch plate itself, maybe the motor shop put it back wrong side inside -out? I think that cannot be the case, namely if the clucth seem to work by hand(by twisting with a tyre removing tool with hand it moves), again too short work length?(its between 15...20mm) what the clutch cable/linkage system seem to be available to give out

Yeh, you guess rigth, i am really pisst with this matter, i want on the road!

 

[malcolm]

There might have been some adjustment to the clutch backplate in the past - the release fingers would be the metal parts that the release bearing presses against.

The problem won't be the clutch plate the wrong way round as that won't change the thickness. Probably the release bearing is a different thickness from the original and you need to modify the fork to compensate or find another release bearing. Those early clutches are really annoying. Reproduction parts are all sorts of different shapes and sizes but the early type lever doesn't have the travel to compensate.

Yes - really annoying. Been there myself.

Might get away with bending the fork with the gearbox in place. Nothing to loose - if it doesn't work then the gearbox needs to come out anyway.

 

[orsome]

clutch'ache

There might have been some adjustment to the clutch backplate in the past - the release fingers would be the metal parts that the release bearing presses against.

The problem won't be the clutch plate the wrong way round as that won't change the thickness. Probably the release bearing is a different thickness from the original and you need to modify the fork to compensate or find another release bearing. Those early clutches are really annoying. Reproduction parts are all sorts of different shapes and sizes but the early type lever doesn't have the travel to compensate.

Yes - really annoying. Been there myself.

Might get away with bending the fork with the gearbox in place. Nothing to loose - if it doesn't work then the gearbox needs to come out anyway.

Thanks again Malcolm!

I think man gotodo what man gotodo.

Gerabox or motor off, i think i have to measeure working lengt what fork can give out, look at the differencies of new/old release bearing, then i think i am going to find a way to get more / check if there is some wearing on the fork outer edge towards gearbox(connecting point) and if i shall weld some additional material to that point to allow the fork to turn more towards the gearbox.

This is no reparation/changing of parts, is more or less engineering.

I will try to keep posting how the matter will be solved(it will be, i'm sure)

PS: my wife remebered that the clucth did release only when the pedal was foot down(-spring 89' info)

 

[barnfind]

Correctly adjusted and with the various bits of the mechanism freed off and in decent condition, you shouldn't have to resort to welding bits on to increase leverage or travel. A good stripdown and clean up will probably do the trick. I'd replace the clutch plate and cover/release bearing as a matter of course once you have been to the trouble of hoisting the engine/gearbox out.

 

[orsome]

cluth photos

i'lll put some phots---