A tale for two 4s (GTLs)

[petak]

Bolts at front should be under the heater unit.


Don't forget this bolts too













Sorry to throw my pictures in your topic......will remove them if you want

 

[Paul Narramore]

No, no Petak. All part & parcel of Bob's body off restoration I would have thought. This sort of advice is invaluable if I can't be found in Haynes.

 

[bobjacqs]

I haven't done much this week as I was preoccupied with the Lotus at the weekend, but here are a few pics...

I bought a multitool to cut off some of the seized bolts and a heat gun to separate body from chassis.

After removing the rubber which was glued to the wheel arches we can see that someone has welded in some plates. I am wondering what to do about it.




I am also wondering whether to remove the rear wings. They seem in fairly good condition. What are people's thoughts?

 

[bobjacqs]

Thanks for the photos Petak! Fantastic! Somehow I missed them until after I posted. Very odd.
Yes, you guessed that I thought there should be bolts where that hole in the floor was, but I did realise my mistake and found them OK them in the end after I removed the radio console. The only ones I cannot free are the ones going under the rear seat. The captive nuts (I guess) have come free so the bolts just spin. I will have to cut them off I suppose. Thanks again for your photos. Bob.

 

[JonathanT]

A mole grip sideways across the captive nut or spire bolt thingy will often stop it spinning. Those bolts are not too easy to come by if you want authenticity. If you get stuck I have some spares

 

[petak]

Not a problem Bob!

I would take down rear wings as they start to rotten from inside out on that horizontal joint.



As JonathanT already told.....if you want originality then it worth to save those bolts......
If not any M7 nut will do the job

 

[Paul Narramore]

M7 is a 'bastard' size and scarce. Most manufacturers use an M6 or an M8. There are a few M7s on a 2CV.

 

[bobjacqs]

Stupid British weather! I've pushed C840LEW in and out of the garage about a hundred times today! Anyway, I got the other front wing off and one rear wing, which was a right job as many of the captive bolts were no longer captive. The oscillating multitool I bought is useless (or perhaps I just don't know how to use it) so I've had to use a large angle grinder (hence in and out of the garage because of the sparks) but this is not easy to get to the places where it is needed. I also got the handbrake free, which has been holding on by one bolt for a while now, the thread it was in spinning. However, I haven't really thought about the easiest way to disconnect the handbrake cables to the rear wheels, which I will have to do before lifting the body. All the body to chassis fixings are out now, though I have still to discover whether there is another one lurking beneath the filler near the read passenger door.

Here are some pics.


Both front wings and inner wings now off.


Rear wing off. It looks simple but took hours.


Unfortunately I ripped the card when removing it, which was disappointing.


Removing the handbrake also took ages because a captive thread was spinning yet I was still unable to pull it out.


I have yet to discover if the last body to chassis bolt is under this filler

 

[mr-reno-139]

Well the multi tool must be capable of attacking body filler if nothing else
Pretty sure some of the blades are supposed to be for wood and plastic not metal

 

[Paul Narramore]

Bob, do you actually KNOW the chassis is corroded or are you lifting the bodyshell off for peace of mind? How are your skills at MIG welding 1.5mm steel?

 

[bobjacqs]

Bob, do you actually KNOW the chassis is corroded or are you lifting the bodyshell off for peace of mind? How are your skills at MIG welding 1.5mm steel?

Ha! Well that's a valid question but my reasons for doing this are not as simple as 'to restore a Renault 4'. I'm out to learn as many new skills as I can and to tackle jobs which strictly speaking may not be necessary but which I just want to attempt. So, I want to take the body off :-) That said, I probably won't do any welding or painting myself.

I've now got the fourth wing off...

And we can see some sort of repair...


I still haven't discovered what's behind the filler and welding inside but don't think the bolt that should be there holding the body to the chassis (the last one I need to undo) is there. Let's hope someone hasn't welded the body to the chassis.


I've got most of the body semi-free but not the corner out of shot in this photo where the repair has been made.


The lotus is loaded up because we're off to France on Wednesday for the Saint Goueno Masters Hillclimb. There is also a classic car regularity event at the same time so I'll be on the look out for some Renault 4s.

 

[malcolm]

It looks very much like someone has welded the chassis to the body. A poor repair. Just slit through the patch with an angle grinder.

For removing the body after everything is free try a jack under the rear crossmember - the weight of the chassis should slowly peel away the black goo between the body and chassis. A heat gun on the goo will help it release and reduce the chance of bending the flat boot floor panel.

 

[bobjacqs]

Thanks for your advice, Malcolm. Should I cut it where I have put the red line on this photo? Or the blue line, below that weld line? And should I cut from the back (from the wheel arch)? It's probably obvious to you but I'm nervous about make the wrong cut and buggering up that suspension mount.

 

[malcolm]

I would guess the blue line. You can check where the chassis is and cut above that, but I suspect both body and chassis would benefit from repair in that area anyway so it doesn't much matter. Try to just cut through the thickness of the patch that has been welded on.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Worth buying the thin cutting blades 1mm thick as they are more of a precision device in skilled hands

 

[bobjacqs]

'in skilled hands' :-)

 

[mojobaby]

Hi bobjacqs, perhaps you should take a wire wheel on a drill and remove all old paint and whatever that white coating is.(filler?)
Get down to bare metal and then you'll have a better idea on where to cut and if it is indeed welded together
good luck

 

[mr-reno-139]

Bob pretty sure we now know you have the most important skill to own a renault 4
It's called a sense of humour without this it can feel like a much bigger challenge than it is
We've all made mistakes along the way
Perhaps more importantly we are all willing to give advice based on our own experiences
Also worth remembering that that there are a lot more body repair sections available than even a few years back but welding skills and patience still needed
Keep at it you will get there in the end but hope you have got plenty of storage space as dismantled cars take up loads of room

 

[Paul Narramore]

That is a pretty dire repair isn't it? It reminds me of a dreadful bodge done to my Honda GL1000 motorcycle, one of the early "naked" GoldWings. One of the two bottom tubes of the frame is unboltable, presumably to allow an easier removal of the heavy flat-4 engine. This removable section can rust internally and badly. On this section is attached the sidestand. 600 lb motorcycle and corroded tube means this section eventually caves in. This must have happened to a previous owner (a PO) so it was welded up. Trouble is, the sidestand bracket was welded at the wrong angle so the bike leaned over at an extreme angle. Correct solution - fit a decent lower tube or weld the sidestand bracket in the correct position. What he did was to weld a 6" length of mild steel bar onto the end of the sidestand. Doh!

 

[JonathanT]

Hi Bobjacs

Unfortunately there looks to be some enthusiastic bodging when it was so called 'restored' just prior to its accident.
Might be helpful to those hoping to offer some guidance is to establish what level of restoration you wish to achieve.

I know this sounds an open ended question but there are clearly some big welded patches and a huge patch/replacement floor.
I expect a number of us spotted that in your earlier photos.
All can be repaired with special panels or possibly cleaned up and painted as is. - Providing the car is structurally sound and square.