Broken down again!!!...I need help

[Sprackers]

Yes if you have been following my trials and tribulations over the past couple of months you will know the history.....

See threads: Broke down on M'way and Notch on flywheel...

In a nutshell:

Car kept on brakeingdown after about 20 minutes:

Changed the electronic ignition to a original Ducellier:

So here is a list of whats been changed:

New battery
New Dizzy
New points
New rotor arm
New coil
New cables
New spark plugs
New condenser

Over the past month...............

First time out

I took it for a run and it stopped after 20 minutes

After it had cooled down for 2 hours it worked fine again for another 10 mins then broke down again, and again

Changed coil to a second hand coil and Dizzy

Second time out

I took it for a run and it stopped after 20 minutes

After it had cooled down for 2 hours again, it worked fine for 9 mins

Changed everything in the list including the coil to a brand new one

third time out - today

Again this time it ran for an hour before packing up.

Felt the coil and it was very hot.

left it to cool for 3 hours , this time no joy.

Its now 8 miles away in a small village parked up.

Its not the fule pump, ther is plenty fo fuel.

What is happening?

Is it the coils that is the problem?

What else couold it be?

To top it all I have 10 days before my ferry leaves!!

 

[Cornish4]

Bad luck Sprackers. Now, have you wired up the coil correctly? Cable from ignition switch to positive+, negative - to distributor. Wired up the wrong way around can result in a buggered up coil. I should know, did it once on our camper.
We've got to get you on that ferry

 

[tim1casa]

Breaking down

Hi. Perhaps it's along shot, but is it possible that your carb float chamber is getting hot? It happened to me once in a traffic jam. The engine got hotter and hotter, and eventually stopped. Under the bonnet, the carb was really hot. It refused to start until it had cooled down, by which time the traffic was moving freely and I was able to proceed. I then added another washer between the carb and the manifold, but I think the problem possibly comes from radiated heat off the exhaust manifold and pipe. I still sometimes have problems starting after I have been parked a while, lending me to believe that the fuel in the float chamber has evaporated. I have recently fitted a non return valve which has improved it slightly, but not cured it fully. I will get around to fitting some sort of heat shield eventually.

Why it is occurring while you are moving, I'm not so sure, but next time check the temperature of the float chamber.

 

[Sprackers]

Triple checked the wiring of the coil already. I thought it might be that so made sure.

At this present time long shots are better than nothing. I will check the heat from the manifold, maybe a some sort of heat shield might help I will get on to it.

I am checking the 3 coils with an ohm meter today and returning to fit them, just to see.

 

[montenegro]

is the motor overheating ? it could be the head gasket, worth trying a compression test.

 

[Sprackers]

Hmm I have noticed a little oil around the engine bay that wasnt there before.
Little oil splats.....

I tightned up the head yesterday in fact.

Head gasket I will never get one of those in 10 days though.

 

[Sprackers]

I have been reading about overheating coils.

Sounds like thats maybe my problem after all.

I have just checked the resistance between the positive and the negative terminals on each of the coils (see photo)

Coil number 1 - Original coil

Resistance: 1.6 Ohms

Coils number 2 - second hand

Resistance: 1.8 ohms

Coil number 3 - brand new

Resistance : 2.6

I tried all of these and none worked in the car

I read that the coil should get warm not boiiling hot like mine was.

I did get some ice to cool down coil number 3 yesterday and when the coil was very cold I put it back in but it didnt work.

I am going today to replace coil number 3 to see if a days rest makes it work.


Here are the usual suspects below

 

[benchseat]

timicasa might have the answer : overheating carburettor due to radiated heat from the exhaust manifold. This will evaporate the fuel in the float chamber and cause the engine to stop : it will then run OK for a short period once the manifold has cooled down.

This is an endemic problem with earlier R4s and there has been a lot of correspondence about this over the years. The only answer is to improvise a heat shield round the underside of the carb. If you put "carburettor overheating" into the Advanced Search for Thread titles you will see one discussion of the problem.

 

[Cornish4]

I'm not convinced its a carb problem. Sure the carb can suffer from either radiated heat from the exhaust manifold or a carry over of heat from the exhaust manifold to the inlet manifold, but I can't see this happening as the car is in motion, with cool air circulating around under the bonnet. It can and does happen when a car is standing still, after a good run, but not all cars. I'm still thinking its electrical, and the coil is the most likely suspect. I take it the points have maintained their gap?

 

[Sprackers]

Just got back from Cristine........by bus.

I replaced the coil (number 3) (2.6 ohms) and turned the key...she turned over fine but no start.

Does the fact that its been 2 days and she is cooled down, eliminate the fact that its the overheating carb?

I manged to rope in a passer by to turn the key.

Spark from coil via HT lead: yes

So this dismisses the coil.

I took the head of the Dizzy and looked for a spark between the points when the key was turned.

YES: there was a park visible between the contact points.

I re-assembled the Dizzy.

Spark at the spark plug: yes - i didnt remove the spark plug but just slotted a spare spark plug into the end of the cable lead and saw a spark at the end.

So this dismisses the dizzy.

So whats left?

Timing?

Could somehting have moved?

Everything was done up real tight.

Any ideas? because I am fed up.

9 days to go.

 

[pepper]

Was this doing this before you changed everything? If it wasn't can you go back to the original parts?

I'd still suspect something like the rotor arm, which caused virtually identical symptoms in my Morris Oxford.

 

[Bobble]

I feel your pain !!! had a similar problem with one of mine, after doing what you have done,
plugs, points, leads, coil all new, then at last found my problem was the condenser it was very very intermittent but appeared to work so as a last resort changed and today just come back from 250 mile run and not a splutter worked perfectly stopping and starting all day without any hiccups, not saying this is your problem but worth a look ?

 

[Cornish4]

Hi there. I agree with Bobble, I feel your pain too. Well it does look like the electrics are fine, although as he says condensers can give trouble. I don't think it's ignition timing as you have had the engine running, and running well, right? So that just leaves the carb then, so I guess you have to look at that, or maybe the pump. Is that pumping a constant flow of fuel, or is it pumping intermittently. I think it's worth checking the pump.

 

[Bobble]

Yes Brain, i did have a bit of a problem with my blue one first thing ( but it was standing for 12 years) took off the fuel pump cleaned it and the tank sender, that had some residue around the little filter, no bother after that, and as you say timing would'nt have that effect.

 

[Cornish4]

Hi Rob, I've not stripped a pump but I imagine there are non-return valves in there, so dirt could cause these to lose their suction. I think Spackers, it's worth checking that, plus the fuel line for possible restrictions. I've got to say my friend, this is a real head scratcher.

 

[Bobble]

yes it is, but i was'nt saying anything until i'd figured mine out, but at the end of the day you just have to go through the whole process to eliminate things, a real pain sometimes and frustrating.

 

[mojobaby]

You say that you have spark at plugs, coil and points and yet the engine turned over but didn't fire. That's timing without a doubt!

Previously you mentioned that you set your points gap with a credit card. That is ,76mm, I've just checked. Your gap should be ,4mm

Does your dizzy cap fit better now? Did you replace it with one that fits?

Incorrect timing and points gap can lead to coil overheating.
You're obviously not getting a spark from the coil after it overheats.

 

[Sprackers]

Hi all,

The pump is fine, I have a see through filter so I can see the fule going through fine.
The condenser is a new one.
The points gap I adjusted to 0.4mm which was half of the thickness of the credit card.
The Dizzy cap is a different one which fits perfectly down to where it sould do.
The rotor arm is new too.

Im going back tomorrow to adjust the timing and the distance with the points.

If that fails I will have a Renault 4 for sale by tomorrow evenning. You will have to come to Nice to pick it up though and you will have 8 days to do it, cash only.

 

[Bobble]

Could just try another condenser, just because it's new does'nt mean it's going to work ?

 

[Sprackers]

I guess why not. Finding pices down here is not cheap. but will give it a go