Engine cut out as I was going along the Mway!!

[Sprackers]

That was a bit of a shock.

Hello all......I need a bit of guidance here as Im not a professional mechanic.

Its a bit long, but stick with it as you may know exactly I need to do.

Symptoms:

1. I have been having trouble starting the car in the cold. For months.

Solution: I try 3 or 4 times starting then wait 3-4 minutes and she starts first time

Reason: Possibly Flooding the engine I read.

2. I was on the Mway on a lovely hot day yesterday and after 30 minutes on the Mway I stopped in a service station. Went to start her...nothing.

Solution: waited and hour, fiddled under bonnet, after trying on and off she just started??

Reason: No idea. Flooding? but I had been driving for 30 minutes


Anyway the other 10 miles back home (of which 7 through towns not on mway) she conked out a further 3 times.

Breakdown Nº1: I was drving along a dual carriageway at 50mph and she just died!?!?!:eek: managed to coast and push her to the side. Phew!

Breakdown Nº2: I was at a traffic light and she was going fine idle-ing and she stalled (As she does sometimes) but I couldnt start her. Managed to push her to the side.

Breakdown Nº3: I was pulling a way from lights going at 15mph and she just died again. Managed to push her to the side

3 times I waited 2 hours and then she started first time.

I have read Haynes top to bottom. Surfed the internet. Done eveything.

Flooded sounds possible except why would it conk out as im going along?

What can I, a layman, do?

I have tools and time.

I have Checked the spark plugs

(newish and cleaned the other day)

there was carbon build up on most which apparently means Im running rich.


Running Rich/ flooded engine maybe a possible link?

Also read:

Check: Air filter,(its new)

Possible actions/ what should I do?:

Clean fule pump gauze filter.(Haynes) Ideas on that? is it easy to do.


Dismantle carburettor and clean out float and needle valve. (Haynes)

This sounds at the very top of my mechnical skill set I will be honest. And dont know if I should try this.

Conclusion:

Cannot take Christine out as I am worried she will just brake down .......So I have to find a solution.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, a bit long I know but I am trying to give you all the facts as I know them.


Cheers

Sprackers

 

[alewis]

Could be an air leak on the pipe with T-piece under the carb ? (The engine breather pipe) Mine had worked loose and I had similar symptoms as sometimes it was good sometimes It wasn't.

 

[Cornish4]

Hi Sprackers, yes very frustrating. One suggestion I can make concerning the trouble you are having restarting a hot engine is some of these engines suffer from the fuel being burnt in the inlet manifold by the heat of the exhaust manifold before it gets a chance to enter the combustion space. It's known as a "hotspot". My GTL engine has this problem. There's not much you can do to solve it. Regarding the engine cutting out, is your fuel pump ok? or in another direction, it could be the coil is on the way out. Good luck, regards Brian.

 

[Sprackers]

Cheers Alewis and Cornish,

Brilliant Im going to be investigating both scenarios and will report back.

Ive just been from under the bonnet again. Cleaning the plugs again.

Ive just started her up again and works fine. But its when Im 30 minutes out that worries me.

 

[Sprackers]

Hi Alewis

Just had a look at the T piece. Well I think it was the T-Piece. a black pipe going to the top of the engine block? anyway and all pipes look A OK and were in place.

 

[Cornish4]

Hmm, that's why I'm suggesting the coil, as a faulty one is ok when cold but as it warms up can give trouble. Maybe change that, and if it's not that, a spare is always handy, just in case in the future.

 

[Sprackers]

Hi Brian,

To be honest its the cutting out completely that im worried about.

I agree it sounds like no petrol is getting to the engine all of a sudden.

The pump is not electronic is it.

 

[jonigel]

You dont say which engine you have ,but it sounds like something stops when engine is warm ,therefore check the coil and condenser to see if you have a spark if not that could be your problem. But also check the fuel filter it could be partially blocked,not letting enough fuel in under load ,cheap to replace.

 

[Tripyrenees]

Is there plenty of fuel getting in to the carb. Do you have an inline fuel filter that you can view the fuel in there?

Could be the fuel pump as already suggested.

 

[Cornish4]

No it's mechanical, it's under the alternator, and they can give trouble. Disconnect the main lead on the coil so the engine doesn't start, then undo the fuel line on the carburettor and use a suitable container to to catch the fuel. Then just turn the engine on the starter, just for a few seconds. Be VERY careful though if the exhaust is still hot or better still let everything cool down before you try this. It's just to see if the pump is indeed pumping well. Jonigels suggestion of the condenser is worth thinking about, as these day they don't seem to last all that long.

 

[alewis]

Yep those are the pipes I was talking about.

Coil seems a good shout.

 

[Sprackers]

Hi Chaps...excellent stuff

Engine is a 1.1 688 model 1984 TL

Coil: Yes it was perculiar that after 15 minutes driving it just cuts out.

I will check the coil today and also look at getting a new one.

Fuel Filter: Thats what I thought, but why would it work then after 15 minutes not work.

I will check that today and replace anyway.

In line filter: yes I fitted it myself. Changed last week.mmmm

I checked that first although its not see through.

When I broke down first time I disconnnected the fuel inlet to the carb. Got a condom out of my emergency breakdown kit. (hold on , hold on...I know what you are thinking...but It was sometheing Bear Grylls said to put in your emegency kit if you need to collect water and stuff...honest).

Well anyway i put it over then end of the loose fuel line and secured it with a cable tie and then got back in the car and turned it over.

After examination there was some fuel in the condom but Im not sure that it was enough as I dont know what is enough.

I will send photos chaps later this morning of my work.......

Here goes

 

[Sprackers]

Here are some pics of Christines innerds
First time uploading photos so here goes

Engine

Coil: Doesnt look anything like anything in the manuals

Fule pump: doesnt look anything like in the manuals

In line filter:

 

[Sprackers]

Well that didnt go well.

I cant uderstand whats going on...why is so difficult to upload a photo

 

[Bertl]

Looks like you copied links from your local computer ...

If you reply in your own thread, click "Go Advanced" at the bottom of the screen, then click "Attach Photographs" and upload them to the board. Make sure they don't exceed the sizes mentioned in the popup.

robert

 

[Sprackers]

Cheers Rob.....

OK here we go again.

Heres a couple of photos:

Number 1. Coil: I doesnt look like any coil Ive seen in any of the manuals or photos. Should it have 3 wires on the top? most have just 2.

Number 2. Fuel pump: It doesnt look like any fuel pump in the Haynes.

I did see a number on the top side of the FF. PG32. Mean anything?

Fuel pump: It has 3 tubes entering it(I thought there would only be 2).

2 rubber tubes entering underneath and one underneath and to the side.

This one I replaced about a year ago and runs to the carburettor via the in-line filter.

I undid the two bolts at the top of the fuel filter and the whole thing came out. I replaced it imedeatly. No fule escaped.

Does it come apart?

How do I get at the gauze to clean and replace?

I dont want to start pulling things apart without getting it right.

 

[jonigel]

I think there lies your problem,someone has fitted a add on electronic ignition,i would bin that straight away,then it will only have two wires ,refit the dizzy with new points and condenser,you can still get proper Valeo ones from Oscaro,the coil may be allright allthough it does not look orginal.
The fuel pump does not have a gauze filter ,you should have a plastic one on top of the rocker box then if you have a Zenith 28 you will find a gauze filter in there which you can clean,also the third line is a return pipe .

 

[iMacThere4iAm]

Hi Sprackers, some interesting problems you're having today.

Engine cutting out is a thing I'm quite familiar with and is either caused by a fuel or electrical failure. You need to work out which before speculating over the root cause, and it's easy. Next time you break down:
Fuel test: Disconnect the carburettor hose and attach a condom (great idea by the way!) and turn over the engine, fuel will visibly squirt out if the pump's working. A clear filter in the hose would make this a lot simpler.
Electrical test: Disconnect the high tension lead from the coil to the distributor and place the bare tip close but not touching to some metal (and far away from your recently squirted fuel!) and turn over the engine. You should be able to see and hear a spark if the ignition is working.

Hopefully this will help you isolate the problem.

About your photos:
That box on the side of your coil could be some kind of electronic ignition module, though it's hard to say more. Where do the three wires go?
Your fuel pump looks like the 'upside down' version designed for RHD cars, though it should work on any. Most fuel pumps can be dismantled - you'll need to unbolt it from the engine first, and oil might spill from the hole. Inside you should find a diaphragm, two one-way valves and a filter. If any of those are blocked or damaged the pump will have problems. I think the third pipe is an overflow back to the fuel tank?

 

[iancr900]

My guess is condenser,burnt points is an indicator.As far as I know coils just burn out and never work again.Condensers are cheap so replace anyway and if I'm wrong at least you have ticked something off your list.

 

[Sprackers]

Morning chaps...... Loads to get on with but I have a feeling that the sudden cut out of the engine might be fuel related and heres why....

I bumped into a bloke yesterday who had 3 renault 4's and he asked..

"Hows Christine"

"Not Well" I replied...

He fell silent and then recounted a story of when he and his dad stopped at a petrol station and filled up his Clio and his Renault 6.

Well they both had problems after that and the mechanic said that because he had filled up just after a tanker had been there filling the big tanks, all the bits were floating about and had got into his petrol tank.

Then it got me thinking about my recent trip where I broke down.

I started my last, now infamous, trip by putting in some petrol.

I stopped at the Motorway sevice station and pulled into a bay only to find the unleaded 95 pump had a cover on it!?

'Thats odd' I thought. All the other pumps are up and ruinning. Normally, IF ANY, its the deisel pump thats not working.

I reversed and went into the next bay.

I went in and pre-payed €10.

Came out and started filling.

It got to €8.21 and the pump stopped.

I pressed it again and nothing. It wasnt back wash either. There was no more petrol.

I went in and he gave me back the €1.79 without a bat of an eyelid.

I drove off and didnt think anymore of it.

But now that seems relevant.

If I got the last knockings of the petrol it would surely have a load of bits in the bottom.

When I broke down on my way back , I was aware that the fuel was low and I would have to stop within the next 10K as the needle was inside the last circle.

Would it be logical that the bits clogged up the fule pump gauze, as I got low on petrol, and caused me to brake down?

Then because I stopped, they slowely freed themselves enough for me to start her up again? and brake down 3 times in 15K

If so I think Im going to start on the fuel pump.

From the photo how do I get inside the fuel pump or do I have to replace the whole thing?

After I have removed it from the body of the engine, does it unscrew?

Hi Jonigel,

you said....The fuel pump does not have a gauze filter ,you should have a plastic one on top of the rocker box then if you have a Zenith 28 you will find a gauze filter in there which you can clean,also the third line is a return pipe.

I will take a look and see if I can find what you are talking about.

Hi Tom,

good tips on testing, I gues I will learn more if and when it brakes down than when I start it up here and it works fine.

Condenser seems to be the next thing after I have done the fuel pump check.

....an finally another great tip, Im sure you all have heard this one, but it was given to me by the bloke who told me about his brakedown with the dodgy fuel....

Get a magnet and stick it on the underside of the fuel tank to draw all the metal bits, inside the fuel tank, away from the outlet pipe.

Brilliant idea which Im going to use.