Outgoing ??? (To the Tech.brigade)

[reidalpine]

I'm in the process of mating the new C2JP 7-13 1400cc R5TX-motor and R5GTL HA1 5-speed gearbox
together with the short bellhousing Also from a R5GTL before installing all into Roffen the F4.....

New motor is all complete with all outside stuff (dual carb/starter/alternator/petrol and waterpump,compl.clutch etc)
mounted the bellhousing to the gearbox and switched over from floor-stick to proper in-dash one,new
gaskets and seals all over- BUT....

Motor and gearbox came from 2 different sources, I found these separately.so never actually seen
them joined up...
Today when trying to mate them up (via R5GTL short bellhousing) something seems to hinder gearbox/bellhousing
going all the way into the motor ... I lack about 10mm to where they would close up and connect together..
Any ideas ???
-All mounting-holes and guidepins are in their right position and whre they're supposed to..

I had to leave the garage in a hurry to get home and start to keep my sanity another day
so didn't count number of splines on primary shaft and into- and through clutch...

Could it be different? Could the primary shaft be different dia? different lenght?
ANY/ALL ideas would assist and support me from keeling over in a corner (too early) tonight.....

(In a case of overly self-confidence I'd already washed and ironed my beret to be right clad'for
some 4L-action this coming week-end -Merde! -R.

 

[malcolm]

It sounds like the clutch splines are not engaging. Did you set up the clutch with a centering tool? If so you might need to put the gearbox in gear and rotate it with driveshafts a little.

A TX engine and GTL box ought to mate. Another thing to check is if there are any locating tubes outside the bolts on the engine or gearbox and make sure you don't have one in both around the same bolt.

 

[reidalpine]

Hi Malcolm! -The clutch is centered and aligned,I turned the clutch with a large screwdriver to be sure splines should engage.. NO use.
On my first attempt I didn't notice there was a "double" guide-pin,removed that one and checked for more Still no use.

Like you I too thought this combo should go,so I will check again tomorrow.That little gearbox don't weigh in at much,but it's real heavy
to hold up with one And guide in with other arm-Or I must eat more Marmite. -R.

 

[harbourseal]

Hi Reid,

Have you changed the axle from the r5 gearbox as well as the bell housing?
The axle with splines from the r5 gearbox is to long.

I had the same problem when I swapped the gearbox of my F6 for a r5 gearbox.

Regards, Robert

 

[reidalpine]

HI Robert! Thanx Much for joining in -I really value members help and assistance on this one.

So what you're saying is you re-used the F6 motor and installed a gearbox from a R5 right?

I am not using the F4 4sp.gearbox at all. The motor and gearbox I am removing comes from a R5GTL 1300.and is to be converted to run on GPL
in another 4L. I am installing a R5TX 1400cc motor with a 5speed high overdrive from another R5GTL coupled togethet via the short clutch-housing from
the R5GTL... So what you are saying is that the primary shaft from this box is too long? You might well be correct. What solution did you go for?
Can i use the shorter primary shaft from a F4 or F6 gearbox -or would it be an idea to cut the tip of this one? -I think we're talking about 10mm approx...
It looks def as the splines matches up with corresponding splines inside the clutch

As far as I understand the front-end of the primary-shafts one job is to "stabilize" the axle on to the brass-bearing in there... -R.

 

[reidalpine]

Malcolm-I finally remembered and found your 5sp.gearbox convertion on here..Do you think it possible to just cut and polish the longer primary-shaft
or would it be best to use the shorter one from the 4L here? The 4L-one are real cheap from Melun Retro Passion at €23 Do you know if they are
alike apart from lenght?

-I've just taken the primary-shaft out of a spare HA1-box just to measure how deep into the engine it goes and to have a better idea how to proceed tomorrow -R.

 

[malcolm]

For my R5 GTL gearbox (HA1) I used the bellhousing and input shaft from the R4 GTL (HA0) as they are both 10mm shorter. The R4 part fits OK. If you have a spare box then measuring the bell housings and input shafts should tell you if you need a shorter one. I don't think it would be easy to shorten the shaft, easier to buy one if they are easily available.

 

[harbourseal]

Hi Reid,
As Malcolm is saying, I did use the shorter input shaft from my F6 gearbox with the shorter bell house.

It's a bit of a fiddle to take it out.

Take the bell house of the gearbox and find the round spring at the base of the input shaft.
With a pair of long beaked pliers it's easy to get there.
Once it is off you'll find a small pin that is held in place by the round spring.
Push it out and you can take the input shaft out.
Regards, Robert

 

[reidalpine]

Gearbox/Clutch-housing/motor mated up today. Trial-fitting in the engine-bay equally nice&easy!
Du-du-dumm...

-Found primary-shaft to be 10mm too long.(finely measured on an old one ) so had a coffee and a think
then took out the cutter,cut 11mm off of end,polished it nice and smeared some grease onto tip
and Showed it home!
As the primary-shaft only rotates when the cluch is depressed and the inner-brassbearing is both deep
and solid against the outer "wall" in there I can't see why this shouldn't work as hoped...

The clutch-housing I'm using is 10mm shorter than the one on the 810G726 1289cc GTL-motor,
just to save much as poss. on the total lenght..anyway it's in now,some other
bitz&pieces had to be fixed Other clutch-cable brackets etc.now done and in so Tomorrow I will
measure/mark and cut into the backplate of the front traverse to make space for the gearbox.
Plan is to keep it original-looking from the front,and not having to change (much) to the hood.

i've already made quick-release hinges/hood-catches and connectors for lights so hope all of that
fits too.
I am making a cradle or extra traverse mounted on top of both front frame-members then going
under the gearbox. This will take up the load of gearbox via two rubber-grommets.I found 2 pre-
drilled and threaded holes already there so these will be used..
In th efront I will go for using back-plate of 5sp.bracket and a slim rubber-thingy onto front-part of
4sp.bracket via the 4 orig holes on traverse... -I hope! -R.

 

[reidalpine]

Small hick-up today as it turned out steering-column didn't fit as inlet-manifold was in the way when column
was reconnected to steering-rack.
By sheer cleverness (or just plain old luck!) I had another reworked one laying around so I was back on
track after this was changed over and steering fell into place

-I then cut out mid-section of front crossmember and decided to manufacture a new subframe or
cradle placed under gearbox.
Bought 2 round rubber-mounts with treads on top and bottom, top ones will go straight into existing treaded
holes in bottom of gearbox on each side. Cradle made to take up most of gearbox weight and movement and
also so I can make up a little simpler midsection of crossmember..

Another thing that can mess me up is the 4-1 headers I'm mounting in a few days
With my usual luck it will probably foul up everything,but we'll see how it goes........

-Have a nice week-end chaps! -R.

 

[Le Champ]

Bonjour Marra you appear to be into the thick of it now. I hope all goes successfully in the days ahead. Patience and determination will win through for you.

 

[reidalpine]

Marra Bri! -How are you-like? Hope all is good with you guys in Geordietown.
you know Patience and Determination are my middle-names so eventually I Will get
there -And in the meantime I get to practize a Lot of French...

Today i made up the cradle which fitted like a glove,also I've cut out the rearsection of the
front crossmember to see if I can make it fit back on so as not to disturb the "original-look"
I've always thought the cross-member to be flimsy..let me tell you it is Not!there are 3 layers
of 1mm metal-hard as nails in there! 4boltholes (orig.gearbox-mount) is reinforced with tubes too.

One thing for sure,that reched headers will def. give me some headache. As it looks right now
I've got the choise of having headers or steering Not both... Would it look silly if I were to
have a strings out each sidewindow,a couple turns around top of steering-column should do it..

Tomorrow I will open the hole where the exhaust-pipe goes into the fender.I know I have a metal-
nibbler somewhere so I'l make it big enough to make easier access and get some air in there to
cool the surroundings of the muffler,as it gets too hot for my liking..
( I know-I'm doing everything in the wrong order,but I'm learning as I go-so there!)
For instance:
-today I learned that jeans do a terrible job protecting the family-jewelry when welding

PS: I've taken some pixes along the way,so will try to put on here later -r.

 

[reidalpine]

had some more hick-ups today when it turned out the 4-1 headers (Autobleu) did't fit properly a it is very badly manufactured
getting it on to all the pin-bolts was impossible as it both bent and warped

Some relief was found when I tried all the in/out-manifold I have saved and found that one of the nice one fitted onto the orig
polished Tx-inlet-manifold. I sniffed at the solution Malcom did with his steering-column but found that to be out of my league..

Steering-rack refitted.
Front crossmember mid-section now cut down and front plus rear-part will be welded together in a slimmed down version keeping
the front-part as orig as poss.

Driveshafts back on now so it is starting to resembe a car again,but I'm trying not to get coy about it just yet! -R.

 

[mr-reno-139]

To gain some extra clearance you can put washers under the rear engine mountings which will lift it up enough to gain some clearance

 

[reidalpine]

HI Paul! You are right (as usual) -I noticed this too, when trying shoehorning the manifolds into place,so I might go for this to create
some axtra space..It's clear now but if something move around this would do the extra trick.

Yesterday I was a little out there cause of the flu,so today is sick-day Thank God for cellphones! -That way I able to call up my wife
from the bedroom and ask her to come turn me over

Will see how it goes tomorrow,right now I'm more interested in cathing as many ZZZZZZZZ's as poss. I really HATE the flu! -R.

 

[reidalpine]

not a lot of progress to report latest few days.as this flu clings on..
was able to weld back the mid-section of front cross-member,all looking good and clearance is about 12mm
so I might go for chopping the front-bracket to fit in there too.

Front-end now Much sturdier than before,so am really pleased with the cradle holding g.box' weight....-R

 

[mr-reno-139]

Just a further thought if your van was 845 originally the mounts on chassis are different slightly angled I think maybe too low
Other solutions include redrilling holes in brackets or slotting them slightly welding washers over slot so it sits higher on chassis
On my yellow peril i had to drill new holes through chassis legs with crush tubes as I obviously had to fabricate mine to suit 1647 engine

 

[reidalpine]

I already changed the chassie-mounts when I used to have the 1289cc motor in.On the new 1398cc I got new for the motor
and the chassie-side so well cared for there. seems I cant get hold of the rubber-grommet parts for the anti sway-bars as they
are different to the 4L/GTL (10 or 12mm bars) on the F4 it is 16mm. Also wonder if I could make replicas in polyurethane instead?
my rubber-ones aren't really that old still but pretty shabby.... -R.

 

[angel]

If you are talking about the anti-roll bar to chassis bushings, I have some of them in 16mm size if you are interested. Outer ones (anti-roll bar to shock absorber pin) can be easily drilled out to size.
They should be possible to make in poly. You gave me some food for thought, I make wishbone bushes from solid polyurethane/vulcollan bar for various classic cars but never thought about our R4s as they are still easily obtainable.

 

[reidalpine]

HI there Angelos-Hope all is good with you down in Athens! and Yes!-I am def.interessted in two 16mm. sets (4pcs) if you can spare..
-I would also be your first customer for a set of poly-ones. I don't know if I'm going especially hard on corners but mine are worn out-
Again..All settings are correct,so it might be I have to start drive like my granny -R.