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1975 Renault 6TL - the fine line between brave and stupid

Have dug out an Autobooks manual for the Renault 6. It says:
'Engage the distributor drive shaft end fitting ensuring that it is correctly positioned with the drive slot set 60 deg. (90 deg. on the 688 type engine) to the longitudinal line of the engine and the largest segment towards the clutch end of the engine..'.
 
Hi Vulgalour,

My thoughts to solve your problem:

What you can try to do is to grab an ignition strobe timing lamp. Hook it up and when turning (starting) the engine you can compare the ignition moment on the first cilinder to the ignition mark on the fly wheel, if it very nearby the ignition mark, you can presume the distributor drive cog is in the correct position. If not, you can presume it isn't in the correct place and try the 90 degrees position.

Are the inner carburator tubes clear of any dirt?

Good luck with solving your problem, I'm sure it is a small tweak. Would love to see your engine running!! Keep it up!!
 
Is it possible, then, that the drive cog being a few degrees (on the assumption it should be 90 rather than 60) out could be what's really preventing it from firing?
 
Maybe not go for the cautious approach with some starter fluid. Just chuck half a cup of petrol straight into the carburetor. worked for me every time.
 
We did try petrol straight down the carb and it was enough to get a few pops down the exhaust but not enough to get it going. Perhaps I didn't put enough petrol down it?
 
Hi Vulgalour

It might be interesting to have a look at the position of your contact points when your flywheel marks line up.
If you have the time, take the rotor off and take a photo from directly above.

And don't be too hard on yourself, you've done a very difficult restoration and given the old girl a second chance:)
 
I've *just* finished work for today so I can catch up on forum threads.

I'll check it again, but the points were gapped and still appear to be opening and closing as they ought when the engine is rotated. My rotor arm may be in the wrong location because it doesn't point at any of the leads and that could be down to incorrect instructions in my manual and I in fact need to set it to what Andy Mghee has in his manual as described earlier in this thread. It's a bit of an odd one really, the manual I've got has otherwise been very good.

Tomorrow, the plan is a simple one:
1 - run a wire/air through the pipework in the carb to make sure it's blockage free
2 - rotate the distributor 45 degrees so the rotor arm points at lead 1 when at TDC on the compression stroke
3 - put it all back together again
4 - turn the key and see what happens

I've had a *lot* of advice, opinions and info thrown at me. A lot of it is exasperation that I can't just Do The Thing, some of it is genuinely useful and some of it is opinion based conjecture that muddies what I'm doing and makes it even harder for me to Do The Thing.

Timing is something of a nemesis for me. It should be such a simple thing and yet I repeatedly manage to cock it up one way or another even with instructions. Anybody would think I couldn't count. If nothing else, it's a good reason for me to only ever own cars with 4 cylinders.
 
Regarding the carb I had good luck with pulling every part apart, then soaking them (and the whole housing) in WD40 for some time. Afterwards every part got a good blow-through with compressed air and lastly a few new gaskets.
Actually I did the same with the carb on my mz bike today :) After some tedious practice I can now take it apart and reassemble under 10 mins.
 
Here is a little update on the little car.

Mike brought the air compressor home a little while ago since we needed it for some other things too and blew the carburettor through. This flushed out some horrible orangey gunge and now fuel gets through the carburettor properly. It had been soaked and cleaned in a way that's normally sufficient but the Solex is a bit more fiddly and contrary. Today, I had a little bit of time and mojo so had a look at the Renault with a refreshed brain.

The main problem identified is that I wasn't setting things up on the compression stroke. I'd got so confused with all the information thrown at me I'd got muddled. This is now resolved, it is now set up on the compression stroke.

The other problem is that the valve clearances had tightened up and were not letting the valves operate properly. I haven't got my feeler gauges at home so I set them to as near as I could without. I will reset these properly.

Sorting those two issues out in turn showed me that the distributor drive cog was in fact in 180 degrees out. When I put it in with the engine out of the car I'd actually done it right so it had to go back to how it was. I had definitely been overthinking this bit! With that back in properly the rotor arm now points at #1 when it should.

Here is a little video demonstrating what it's doing. The video is a bit crappy, apparently I used a potato instead of a camera.

You can see it's not quite right. My understanding is that this is down to incorrect valve clearances. Three of four bangs are going down the exhaust like they should, one is coming back through the carburettor, hence the little plume of flames. I'm hoping when I set the valve clearances properly, all the bangs will go down the exhaust and the car will run. That is what I'm going to try and I will see what happens.

One thing I did do was compare my brand new early R5 radiator with my old late R6 radiator properly. I knew the new rad probably would fit as I'd seen videos of cars running with them fitted. It's surprising how similar they are in size and should be able to be modified to fit without too much grief.
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Both hoses line up exactly, the temperature sender looks to be the same (didn't have a big enough spanner/socket to find out exactly) and the only issue really is having the one long bolt sticking out the bottom that I need to chop off or drop in the bolt hole it lines up with. To fix to the 6 I'll make some little clamp type brackets for the top and bolt it securely in that way.
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It's not much, but it's progress at least. When I've got tools and time next week I'll do a bit more, hopefully even get it running properly.
 
I've reached the end of my journey with this little car now and it is available to purchase. This isn't a decision I've come to emotionally, or lightly, particularly given the work put in and the help received. It is a decision made with my head, rather than my heart, and one that I need to make.

I have got as far as I can get with this project. I am not prepared to take the engine out or even the head off again to try and resolve the running problem. So, it is up for sale.

This is not open to debate and I know there will be disappointment and urges for me to complete the project but I have done what I set out to do which is save it from the crusher. So now is your opportunity to OWN a rare old Renault.

The for sale advert is here: http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/threads/1975-renault-6tl-600-ono.8280/
 
Say whaa what?

I truly didn't expected this! I was so curious and excited to see the engine running and taking her out for the first trip. When I read your post and thoughts, you've clearly gave it a good thought over. I do hope that you will reconcider your decision, but in the end it is up to do.

:(
 
If I keep it, I can't see me fixing it at this point now. I have absolutely no desire to remove the engine from the car again and made the decision some time ago that if it looked like I was going to have to then the car would go. Finding the time, the weather, the help and the tools to do engine removal and refitting is difficult for me and I haven't the funds to give it to someone else to fix. I also don't really have any friends or family that can help with this so I either keep it as an ornament and watch it gradually get worse or I sell it on and give it the best chance of survival with a new owner.

I'm a little sad to draw the line here, when I know I'm so very close to having it all done, but I've fought so hard over the last twelve months to get through the problems and been so unable to get it to run with the help and advice offered that I have accepted this is just a job I cannot do. I'm perfectly happy for any of the people who have said it's as simple as X, Y, or Z to come along, take it off my hands, and show me just how simple it is for them to fix it. I'd be delighted if the new owner just has to do something simple to get it to run properly.

I just don't see the point in getting myself frustrated and upset with a car that I've done so much good for already and may undo by losing my temper with it. It's time to walk away.
 
Sad to hear it, but it sounds like you have thought it trough. If I lived anywhere nearer than 1000 km's as the crow flies I would love to help. In my area there's just no one interested in old cars and bikes whom I can tinker with....And my skills is also on the level: Do something until you somehow learn by it (or the problem somehow fixes itself). Everything I know about mechanics is self-tought learning-by-doing and learning-by-reading-books-and-forums :)
Good luck with the sale or with the car if the problem somehow is solved.
 
Today marks the end of my journey with this little car properly because it sold. Perhaps the easiest sale I've had and to someone who really got what this car is. He was quite excited by the whole thing, and who can blame him? It's an exciting car ;) I feel comfortable it's gone to the right person, he gave the impression of understanding the shortcomings on the car and recognising the work already done and didn't feel particularly daunted by it. The right questions were asked about various parts of the car and I just got a generally good vibe. Hopefully, this little car will go on to bigger and better things still with the new owner and I'll be pointing him at the various threads and forums I've used to record the adventures and troubles with it over the past few years.

Au revoir, little car, until we meet again.
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Better the car goes to someone who appreciates it and can get it running properly again rather than you get disenchanted with it and it sits on your drive deteriorating for a few years. Knowing when to stop is no bad thing.
 
Today marks the end of my journey with this little car properly because it sold. Perhaps the easiest sale I've had and to someone who really got what this car is. He was quite excited by the whole thing, and who can blame him? It's an exciting car ;) I feel comfortable it's gone to the right person, he gave the impression of understanding the shortcomings on the car and recognising the work already done and didn't feel particularly daunted by it. The right questions were asked about various parts of the car and I just got a generally good vibe. Hopefully, this little car will go on to bigger and better things still with the new owner and I'll be pointing him at the various threads and forums I've used to record the adventures and troubles with it over the past few years.

Au revoir, little car, until we meet again.
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Well done Vulgalour and thank you for sharing your journey with us. Your efforts to find a good home seem to have paid off hopefully Crapaud will appear again soon on here :clapping:
 
Do you have any new project in mind now that the weather (even in Wales) is going to be warmer and drier, and work outside is easier?
 
As it happens, to prevent me buying another project I've volunteered to pick this one up again where it was left off in August 2015. Free time and work commitments for both me and my housemate meant it's been shoved in a corner untouched for a couple of years. Right hand drive, 1964 Lancia Flavia 1.8 coupé.
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It's not as bad as it looks in that picture, that's as far as I'd got on the last attempt, removing several kilos of filler to discover what it needed for new paintwork. It's in reasonable condition and all the rare parts are present. It needs the repairs on all four arches redoing, both sills and both doors attending to. It also needs a new headlining, new carpets and the seats retrimming. Oh, and the brakes don't work, but the engine does run. So, it'll be fun to get stuck into that one.

Before I start on the Lancia, I'll be getting my Princess through an MoT which it's now booked in for. Been a mammoth job over the last couple of years getting it all sorted but I think I'm there now with the only big jobs being the fresh underseal to do and the paintwork to sort out properly. This used to be my daily driver, it's now going to be my fair weather/back-up car.
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The current daily driver is my Rover 414. It's a brilliant and reliable bit of kit really, cheap to run, easy to live with and looks pretty smart. It needs a couple of tyres and a new catalytic converter.
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For now, I'm definitely keeping the Princess as I've dragged that around through thick and thin for five years now. The Rover I like a lot, have spent a lot on it, and it's a superb everyday car for me. In the future I think I will have a third car again, the idea of a rolling project appeals, something I can buy, fix up and sell on to acquire whatever next takes my fancy. I've enjoyed the majority of my adventures with the 6 because it's so different to anything I've tackled before. I can't see myself being without a French car for very long, certain models have a certain something about them, especially Citroen estates. We shall have to see what the future holds.
 
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