1975 Renault 6TL - the fine line between brave and stupid

[Vulgalour]

Add to this list a distributor cap since the one that arrived, while looking and being listed as identical to the one on my car is actually comedically too small. Presumably it's for the smaller engine.

I'm having difficulties with the Der Franzose site too (MySQL error message) so I'm waiting on an e-mail reply instead to sort out an order. The difference between the two orange seals is as follows:
old seal internal diameter: 75mm
old seal external diameter: 90mm

new seal internal diameter: 83mm
new seal external diameter: 100mm

Absolutely no joy locating piston rings locally either so that looks like another Der Franzose item. Slightly frustrating really. Online hunting is resulting in finding a lot of unsuitable items, and I'm looking at more places than just eBay. The most frustrating thing is that the car has a number for a name so putting in 'renault 6tl' or 'renault r6' or variants thereof bring up lots of things listed by part number, engine size and year rather than what I'm specifically looking for.

 

[mr-reno-139]

I have covered this many times always use renault+6 brake pads example
On ebay this works fine most I am happy to advise suitable parts as most cross references and parts catalogues have got major errors in them
I have been exclusively working on old renaults since 76 when I left school
If you have got a smartphone and message me your number I will find suitable web links for you
Have got about 6 oilseals right size here

 

[Vulgalour]

I don't have a smartphone, I just have the old desktop PC. I can message you my e-mail if that's suitable? When I've tried the renault+6 it throws up lots of stuff for Clio and Laguna and random V6 engine parts and rarely anything for Renault 6 unless I'm after body panels. The number of Chinese LED products in these searches is quite baffling too.

The small crankshaft oil seal does seem to be the same size as the new one and the rubber sump gasket pieces also look the same as the old one. I begin to wonder if the gasket set only had one incorrect seal put in it, you know. Would definitely be interested in grabbing that correct oil seal from you.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Most r6 parts are directly interchangeable with an R4 or early R5 but it's knowing which one

 

[Vulgalour]

Agreed. Is the correct seal available from yourself or should I go via Der Franzose?

 

[mr-reno-139]

Yes I will send you seal have a close look at the gasket for sump as the ends with cutout for rubber section are 5mm differences between engines and you can trim 5mm off early to fit later but you can't add 5mm if you've got later gasket to fit early engine
Mobile number 07973423795
Or mr.reno.139@gmail.com
I've got no early gaskets as used all mine

 

[Vulgalour]

Since the last update, all has been on hold. It's been an eventful month, mainly derailed by my brother and a friend walking away from an accident that should have killed them both when the Escort van they were in was pretty much destroyed by a car hitting them at over 100mph for apparently no reason http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...iously_hurt_in_A168_smash_in_North_Yorkshire/

Another spanner was thrown in the works when it turned out the single ring set I was going to buy was the wrong size for my engine. Instead, I've had to order the complete set at £60ish which had to wait until tonight as funds have been pretty tight while I've been focusing on getting friend and brother sorted out. Happily, another enthusiast (cheers Mr-reno-139!) furnished me with the correct end seal so I have everything coming together to sort the engine out. Since I'll be fitting a full set of new rings I've decided to pay a little bit more and have a local company fit them and hone the liners so it all matches nicely and takes away the fear of breaking another ring and having to order another set.

Once that's all together, hopefully later this month, I can look at getting a new battery and seeing if the radiator is fixable. I reckon even though it's got the unique-to-6 radiator one from a 5 or even a 4 will do just as well if I need to replace it. Replacement 6-specific parts seem ludicrously difficult to get over here and I'm really struggling with leboncoin.

Progress on this project is frustratingly slow and very stop-start after the initial fun exploration of the little car. I shan't give up, I'll keep plodding away.

 

[jjad]

So sorry to hear about that dreadful 'accident' (I use quote marks as someone going that fast can't really expect not to crash sooner or later). I hope your brother and friend recover and the person responsible is suitably punished.

Thanks for posting your progress - it's always interesting to hear how projects are getting along.

 

[Vulgalour]

Fortunately, brother and friend appear to be made of rubber because they're both doing remarkably well all things considered. They're neither of them doing great, it's accelerated (no pun intended) existing health conditions, but they are at least coping. The person responsible is no longer allowed to drive, seems a suitable punishment all things considered.

---

Wow, it was just over a year ago that I pulled the engine out of the Renault for a 'quick rebuild'. Been a stinker of a year! Today, I got caught up and made some progress with some help and guidance from my brother who has done considerably more engine rebuilds than me of all sorts of different types.

I finally got the expensive piston ring set from Der Franzose which came with instructions as to which went where if I wasn't sure. Some of the old rings did put up quite a fight, others didn't, and while the pistons show their age they're far from knackered so were decoked and kitted out with new rings.

This time, no piston rings were snapped on reassembly. Mike invested in a glaze busting tool for the unit and we tried it out on the Renault's scruffy liners. Worked a treat and they all cleaned up very nicely. Pistons went back in nice and snug and with a few tricks from my brother on how better to use the ring compressor and such we had all four back in the engine in no time. Here's some pictures of just three in situ. I was relying on my camera phone so components look dull when in real life they're actually shiny.

We made sure the correct paper liner gaskets were fitted, that the pistons all pointed the same way (there's marks on the crowns) and that the liners were correctly paired. There does seem to already be signs of good compression, as there was some necessity to rotate the engine while getting everything in and my brother's gloves were being successfully vacuumed into the bores, that bodes well.

With that done it was really a case of reassembly. I didn't get everything done, I'm still a bit unwell and I wasn't in a rush, I'd rather the job be done well than quickly. Got the cam buckets and pushrods refitted, head gasket fitted, head bolts torqued in correct sequence (they'll be retorqued accordingly once the engine has been running) and even got the rocker cover gasket fitted.

On a bit of a roll the crankshaft went in, the exhaust manifold and carburettor were also fitted. I was going to sort the timing and get the chain on but the tensioner has burst into its component parts and doesn't seem to want to stay together. Nothing appears to be broken or missing, it just doesn't seem to want to stay in one piece.

It's looking like a smart little engine now. Looking forward to firing it up when we've finished rebuilding all the various bits and pieces, I'd like to hope it's not going to take another year before it's back in the car but you really never know with the way my life goes.

 

[Vulgalour]

Today started off well, got the timing chain on and set the timing surprisingly easily.

Things were off to a good start today. Cleaned up and repainted the timing chain cover.

Cleaned out the sump too, the bottom of which still had the horrible grey putty under the oil sludge. Took a while to clean it all up.

I need a new sump plug, the old one looks like someone has used a dinosaur to try and release it. The outside of the sump was a bit pitted from rust and had signs of a bit of a scrape where it looks like the car's hit a rock or something. Nothing too serious and hidden with a fresh coat of black paint.

Feeling pretty good about all this. Time to get the engine turned over a few times and get the tappets set. Then something went wrong.

After getting the engine together, setting the static timing and checking it was rotating freely (and I did use assembly lube on everything so it was all nicely oily), somehow a con rod bearing shell slipped when it was rotated, I don't actually have the faintest idea how, and now I have this problem. The scoring visible in the photograph isn't very visible at all in the real world and there were no scoring marks on the crankshaft before this happened. I've not yet inspected the crankshaft but I'm expecting it too is damaged and will need regrinding unless I'm very, very lucky. Then I'll have the unenviable task of locating oversized con rod bearings, a prospect I am not relishing.



It's the second one from the right in this picture that had spun.

I'd like to know how I managed this and what went wrong. I've read other engine rebuild threads where bearings just do this sometimes, both new and old re-used ones. Where I'm lucky is that this has happened on hand cranking and not when I was driving the car as seems to be the norm for this sort of thing from what I've read over the course of the last year or so. It's my first full engine rebuild so mistakes are inevitable and hopefully this one won't be too costly to resolve.



On the positive side I don't have to dismantle the entire engine to replace the bearings and inspect the crankshaft and before the bearing span the engine did turn over really smoothly and operated all the pushrods as it ought so there was a moment of sunshine today.

 

[Azazello]

Sorry for you... really a pity... if you need help with delivering from europe, just ask.

 

[Vulgalour]

I've had no joy sourcing a set of con rod bearing shells for this engine yet tonight. It's the 1108 with the thinner crankshaft, which is what's making the search difficult. That and me not having the measurements to hand to see if I can get a generic set.

Think we figured out how the Renault's spun bearing shell happened now. We were quite tired putting the last few bolts in so theory is that I didn't tighten this one up enough so after a couple of slow hand turns it slipped and moved. Photographs make the damage look far worse than it is, as the macro setting always does. Clear head tomorrow I'll go in and inspect and clean everything and get new pictures. Looks like a rookie error. I don't recall there being any difficulty refitting any of the bearing shells and that they'd only go in one way, so I don't think it's a reversed shell that's the issue. This is probably a salvageable situation. I'm getting lots of "don't panic" messages about this, which is reassuring.

 

[mojobaby]

I'm hoping for your sake that the crankshaft is undamaged; that could be a bit of a setback. Maybe if its just scratched, it could be polished out with very fine sandpaper, like 600 or 1000 grit

 

[Vulgalour]

So good news first then. The bearing shell cleaned up well enough to be reused, most of the damage was where oil had been displaced rather than an actual stamping on the metal. The crankshaft had no damage at all. Everything that should be round still was. Second opinion agreed and a decision was made to put things together, torque it up and hand crank to see how it went. Everything was fine, no untoward noises or stickiness. We carried on and bolted things up. It has been decided that if, upon running the car, there are bad things we will haul it all out and replace the bearings. I'm told it's likely there will be no issues as the engine is crude enough to get away with it, especially since I'm unlikely to do more than 2000 miles a year in it off motorway.

The bad news is that the camera was entirely forgotten about until packing up time. Got a bit carried away and now appear to have an engine.

Here we are, end of day pictures. This is the business end. New gaskets for the water pump, plate and pump cleaned up as best I could, it's a difficult shape to work with. The pump turns freely with no play. Alternator bracket bolted on but not adjusted. Belt tensioner loosely bolted in place, not adjusted. Crankshaft pulley just plonked in place, also not adjusted. A new crankshaft end seal was fitted too.

Timing gear and distributor fitted with new gasket as per static timing instructions. Ignition timing not yet set. Still has the old plug leads, rotor arm, points and distributor cap fitted here, I'm finding out what's missing so I can order the consumables in one go. Vacuum hose still good as is the solid part of the fuel line, the rubber ends of the fuel line need replacing. Fuel pump fitted with new gaskets. Oil pressure switch fitted (old one, not yet tested). Dipstick put back in tube.

Cam chain cover and sump repainted, and fitted with new cork gaskets. Air filter box fitted with old air filter still inside which will be replaced.

The less interesting side of the engine.

Next big job is to clean up the gearbox and fit the new clutch kit. I've already got new points and rotor arm, I need to acquire a new air filter, oil filter, spark plugs, spark leads, possibly a distributor cap (though the one fitted does look quite healthy), at least one drive belt and a bunch of rubber fuel hoses. May need some coolant hoses too, I need to check through those properly.

 

[Vulgalour]

Bit of a flat day today. Ages ago I bought what should have been the correct clutch, on inspection it appeared to check out. However, on attempting to fit it today it is not correct. I bought it so long ago I can't even return it now and funds are too far depleted to go and buy the correct one. That's another problem I'm now having too, I can't seem to find a clutch kit listed anywhere for this engine just more like the one I bought that I know is wrong.

The big difference is that the spline shaft hole on the friction plate is too small. Superficially in every other way the kit is the same as that fitted to the car. This has really annoyed me. The old clutch is, realistically, far too worn to be of much use but without a clutch fitted I can't put the engine and gearbox back in the car where it belongs. Any help locating the correct clutch for this car would be most welcome.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Somebody had one o n here for sale it's 160 mm only used on 956 and 1108cc r6

The clutchi s very similar to easy to find 845 cc r4 but designed for opposite rotation so needs close inspection
I sold a new genuine kit for 20 few months back along with the fully rebuilt mk1 R6 engine for 100 which has not been run since 1992 for 100 to Ben for his 73 mk 1 r5
This will be ok ebay item 361435619691

 

[Vulgalour]

You absolute star! I just bought a single clutch plate for very little but that's a far better solution. You've just saved me a world of frustration with that. I really struggle to get my head around the way parts are listed and finding out what's actually on my car.

 

[Vulgalour]

New clutch fitted, gearbox on surprisingly easily with the assistance of the engine crane, starter motor bolted on and then a decision made to do this:

It isn't running yet, there's still a few more things to button up. You see, the weather decided to come over all Welsh, probably to celebrate the momentous occasion of this little car finally being reunited with its mechanical heart.

It was raining so heavily there was no point even putting the cover back on so when things are dry again I'll have to bail out the interior. Not far off coming off the axle stands now though and that means it's not far off coming home either.

 

[mr-reno-139]

Only trying to assist hopefully you refitted the engine mounting support which goes over the starter as it goes missing I keep a few in stock still
Well done for carrying on and hopefully it runs soon

 

[Vulgalour]

Ah, that's what that's for! I did think that's where it went but it didn't look quite right with the engine out of the car. I've still got access to bolt that on so I'll do that when I do the next bit of the job.

While I've got you here, do you happen to have a larger drive belt? I've got the smaller one that goes to the alternator, I'm having trouble figuring out what to search for to get the larger one and I haven't got the old one for comparison.

If I have enough of a dry spell tomorrow I'll be getting the engine bolted in properly and the driveshafts back on so we can wheel the car indoors to do the fiddly jobs like electrical stuff without the pressure of bad weather. Quite exciting really, I just don't want to rush into starting it until I know everything is done that can be done first.