What have I done! (R4 GTL)

[petak]

Made hard road test with my R4.
Went to Renault meeting in Dubrovnik.
Some 750 km up and down.

Ride was nice and car was made it without any problems.
But it did not work as it should.
At 70kmh in 4 gear it shivers slightly ( i can feel it on my foot), and wont accelerate nicely. After speed goes over 80 than it is great.
Found out that my vacuum advance is broken and it does not work nice at low revs.
I can see that it is damn hard to find new vacuum advanced for ducellier dizzy.

How can i be 100% sure that vacuum is gone?

Consumption was 5,7liters on 100km (cca 50mpg)
I believe it can go down even more

Exhaust pipe is black so i think that to much petrol is going thru carburetor that is not burning

 

[petak]

Yesterday we (borgeb and I) made our road test.

Borgeb has written decibels in cabin at certain speed while i was driving both cars. His and mine.
His is normal regular GTL made in Slovenia used over 25 years. Little bit shaken (but not stirred) from use all this years
Mine is .....well you can see for your self in this topic.

Main reason for test was to determine is insulation i have put in car on wall between engine and cabin, roof and door panels really reducing sound or is it just placebo effect.

Test specimens
Far away from each other


I can tell you that feel in car is totally different. According to my method of ear feel while driving.

Mine does not have "drum" effect in car, and everything is tight except booth doors that are making squeaking sound when ever road is not flat
You can hear engine nicely, but there is no rattle sound in car.
Aldo at certain rpms i got some resonating sound form engine bay. Some metal is touching other metal and start to vibrates.
At 90-95 kmh you start to hear wind around cabin but no blow inside.

Borgebs car is making more metal sound inside from vibrating roof and doors.
Also have more rattle sound inside from different things

Borgeb will post numbers (decibels) that he has written down.
I can not steal him credit for that. Hi method is more sophisticated.
He even used instrument to measure decibels.


After wards we had big struggle to fulfill "other" test we were obligated to do

Test specimen for second part

homemade red wine with some teeth animation.

Was nicely going thru our throats. Strong, tasteful wine that pair well with some red meat on barbecue....that we will test next time...

After test cars get little bit closer than before and little bit foggy







Because night was falling down and poor phone camera.......not wine

JonathanT....is test made correctly or do we need to repeat it?

 

[JonathanT]

Hi Petak I think you me and Borgeb have considerably more testing to do!

What a fabulous account of what you have been up to both of you...a little bit of science and a little bit of social banter.

What a great addition to this forum....adds a lot of life!!!!

 

[Paul Narramore]

Noise? What noise? Petak, Have you ever travelled in a Citroen 2CV? ;-) I SAID HAVE YOU.......!!!!! (I now wear hearing aids, really).

 

[mr-reno-139]

Going back to distributor questions if you suck on end of vacuum pipe with engine idling you should hear engine note change as it advances ignition
Or watch closely with cap off
If you get stuck I can probably find a used part for you as I have still got a box of ducellier distributors hidden away

 

[petak]

JonathanT.....than we need to continue testing until everything is perfect.....and than more testing to see are we holding the right level of greatness

Paul Narramore....sorry did not heart you right.....have some noise behind me ..........Did not travel with 2CV ever...few drives thru town but never long ride.
So you are saing that R4 is quiet

Mr-Reno-139
I had brand new vacuum and put it on dizzy but snapped on small tube at the end.

Yesterday tried to repair it with butil sealant.


Not sure will leak air thru it but i needed to try it.

So it looks like this now


Today will put it on dizzy and be more gentile when connecting pipe.

Will get back to you if does not find it here locally.

Thank you!

 

[borgeb]

Yesterday we (borgeb and I) made our road test.

Borgeb has written decibels in cabin at certain speed while i was driving both cars. His and mine.
His is normal regular GTL made in Slovenia used over 25 years. Little bit shaken (but not stirred) from use all this years
Mine is .....well you can see for your self in this topic.

Main reason for test was to determine is insulation i have put in car on wall between engine and cabin, roof and door panels really reducing sound or is it just placebo effect.

Test specimens
Far away from each other
View attachment 15977

I can tell you that feel in car is totally different. According to my method of ear feel while driving.

Mine does not have "drum" effect in car, and everything is tight except booth doors that are making squeaking sound when ever road is not flat
You can hear engine nicely, but there is no rattle sound in car.
Aldo at certain rpms i got some resonating sound form engine bay. Some metal is touching other metal and start to vibrates.
At 90-95 kmh you start to hear wind around cabin but no blow inside.

Borgebs car is making more metal sound inside from vibrating roof and doors.
Also have more rattle sound inside from different things

Borgeb will post numbers (decibels) that he has written down.
I can not steal him credit for that. Hi method is more sophisticated.
He even used instrument to measure decibels.


After wards we had big struggle to fulfill "other" test we were obligated to do

Test specimen for second part
View attachment 15978
homemade red wine with some teeth animation.

Was nicely going thru our throats. Strong, tasteful wine that pair well with some red meat on barbecue....that we will test next time...

After test cars get little bit closer than before and little bit foggy

View attachment 15979

View attachment 15980

View attachment 15981

Because night was falling down and poor phone camera.......not wine

JonathanT....is test made correctly or do we need to repeat it?

No doubt abaut that, Petaks noise reduction work made results. Of course he has a new car, so everything is tight and smooth. No rattling, no rubbing, but most of all no drum skin effects from roof or floor pans.

We made test with a dB meter just too compare the two cars, and figures goes like this:

Petak/borgeb:

At 40 kmh: 69/85
At 60 kmh: 66/90
At 80 kmh: 85/91
At 80 rev to 90 : 97/99
At 90 kmh: 86/95

What is more important is ear test/ noise feeling. Petaks car is like driving a pillow, mine is like driving a drum.

And for the wine: I love his uncle!

 

[JonathanT]

Very interesting thread! I have a big sheet of foam to stick on the roof beneath the ceiling trim. Going to purchase some thick sticky sheet for the floor. I already have some very heavy duty rubber for the bulkhead.

 

[borgeb]

Made hard road test with my R4.
Went to Renault meeting in Dubrovnik.
Some 750 km up and down.


Consumption was 5,7liters on 100km (cca 50mpg)
I believe it can go down even more

Could not resist doing the same travel this weekend. So nice costal road, so many nice places. And Dubrovnik as a historical pearl down there. And the R4 like all cars like to have some long distance travelling, to breath and clean up internal. I noticed better performance, less vibrations and more smoothness after some 4-500 km.
After some 850 km (went to Montenegro as well) I have 6,1 in consumption compared to yours 5,7. I believe that is quite normal.

 

[petak]

borgeb....i did not realized that difference is so big in numbers....
And your consumption was alright.....but i believe that it can go down for at least 0,5liter. it is matter of try and error with dizzy, timing and carb.

Was it rainy?


I need to resolve that resonating sound when get to high revs.


JonathanT....i would definitely recommend to put something on roof at least now as leaning is taken of....especially as it can not be seen

 

[malcolm]

I need to resolve that resonating sound when get to high revs.

Is it loud exhaust noise that starts at100km/h and finishes at 120km/h? The last 2 photos on http://www.renault4.co.uk/gordini-soundproofing.htm seemed to fix it for me. Bitumen damping on the bulkhead might work too.

For wind noise I think the the problem is the cabin pressurises through the front vent under the windscreen and blows the tops of the doors outwards. It happens on mine even though I reinforced the doors to try to stop it. Try covering the front vent completely with tape and see how much better it is. The Renault 5 Mk1 has air vents at the rear to reduce the pressure and wind noise is good. I've not got around to adding them to the Renault 4 yet. I plan to make a hole to the rear wheelarch in the side furthest from the exhaust. It needs to be done carefully with some way to stop water getting inside, and lots of foam inside to reduce the noise that will come through.

 

[petak]

I believe that resonanting sound is geting from metal sheald under intake/exhaust.
Because it starts in any gear when revs are high.

Will try to tape front air intake under the screen and see what is happening.
But you have point.
Flap is constructed in such way that air will open it.
Your idea for making preassure hole in booth definitly is tempting but concerned about how to close it not to let water in.

 

[Azazello]

The old style metal flap should be way more effective. ..

 

[petak]

You are right Azazello. Old one is closing when driving. At least in theory.

Today i have noticed small hole in my vacuum. One from picture in previous thread.
When that hole is closed vacum is strong and stay all the way while i pull air.
When that hole is opened and i pull air than i can feel vacum but for short while.
Is that hole suposed to be there?.

Did not put vacum on dizzy so can not tel how work on car.

 

[petak]

Actually noting much is happening but jet many small things i am fiddling with.

Still waiting for carb to get back from refurbishing. So did not done anything with firing/dizzy/carb problem.

Ordered Accuspark electronic ignition kit for dizzy...will see if will fit my ducellier without problem
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180869067024?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Find second hand dizzy with good vacuum on local scrapyard.
Scraped R4 is in such good condition that i am almost sad that is there. And many, many good parts to use.

After carb arrive i really hope i will manage to solve problem that i have with car.


Also find panel board for my rear door and C pillar cower. 3mm MDF board.
Preparing myself for cutting and upholstery

Still feeling that my R4 is standing little bit odd on the road.
Tried to compare it with others driving around and find out that at many of them rear tire is under wheel arch. At some completely, at some half of tire height.
Mine is far away from wheel arch.
Thinking that on those cars suspension is tired and not maintained as it should be. But this is just to comfort myself....i am not 100% sure about it.

There is only one local R4 that is relative in good condition, and comparing to that R4 everything is fine.
Look picture




Would like to here some of you how "tall" your rear wheel arch is from the ground.

P.S. had to go back to original wheels with 155/70/13 tire to go thru attest and to be legal on the road with that wide tire

 

[JonathanT]

Looks HOT Petak!

PS Can you recommend a black sealer to use between your wings and body?

 

[jjad]

Would like to here some of you how "tall" your rear wheel arch is from the ground.

See this thread http://www.renault4.co.uk/forum/threads/ride-heights-again.3643/ and the page http://www.renault4.co.uk/tech-ride-heights.htm for some details. Hope it's useful.

 

[petak]

JonathatT....sealer between wings and body is butil sealant

This one


But believe any butil sealant will do the job.

Talk about front and rear wings with my body guy and i have "order" him to put sealant on whole area that is overlapping in big amount.





Jjad...thank you for pointing me to this threads....have already read it....and according to factory numbers my front end is 3 cm lower than it should be, and rear end is 4,5 cm taller than it should be.

But that does not feel right.....especial if you look at that picture i have put blue R4 side by side with red R4 GTL

That is why i am asking some real life measurements to compare.
Maybe i am in denile, and need to level it up according to factory numbers

I can always turn bars end get it to that numbers.....

 

[petak]

Some action today! Full equipment! R4 as working mule



Went to my donor car to cut him and send to metal scrap yard.

There is not an cm of body that can be saved

Chassis.....could be some parts worth to save.

 

[JonathanT]

Some action today! Full equipment! R4 as working mule

View attachment 16170

Went to my donor car to cut him and send to metal scrap yard.

There is not an cm of body that can be saved

Chassis.....could be some parts worth to save.

Wow you are clearing up now. Lots of Summer to enjoy in your 'New' R4!